Obsessive thinking about Presence?

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bparrish99
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Obsessive thinking about Presence?

Post by bparrish99 » Wed Apr 02, 2008 8:11 pm

Here's what I find myself bumping into now and again, seemingly more and more as I delve deeper into the practice... It seems compulsive, out of control thinking still comes back, but this time instead of thoughts (at least direct thoughts) of me, my, mine, now more and more it's a "teacher voice", pummeling my consciousness with thoughts and instructions that I've read in the countless books I've read on the subject (one reason I don't read those books much anymore), almost like I am at the front of a classroom, for which I am the only student, and just keep flitting from one mindfulness practice to another, one Power of Now passage to the other...

...then when I notice this, I attempt to use a technique I've learned from these practices to quell it, but that contains within itself yet more thoughts about the practice! It feeds on itself, and a tension arises where there was none before. The practice is turning against itself.

This morning I was lucky enough to read (in the bathroom of all places) the passages of PON which discuss fully inhabiting the inner body, so I did that for a while, and then on the drive to work the shining light of wisdom came through again and said, don't make a problem out of anything, advising me to return to the inner body whenever I felt I was making a problem out of something (including too much thinking about not making a problem out of anything, etc, etc.)

This seemed to cut through pretty well, but I was wondering if other people -- err, entities through which consciousness expresses itself -- have run into this "problem", and if so how they've dealt with it?

(Of course this might just serve to add more words to the pile, thereby giving the "problem" more food, but sitting here with light attention on my inner body, I just can't help myself... :) )

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kiki
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Re: Obsessive thinking about Presence?

Post by kiki » Thu Apr 03, 2008 12:38 am

I don't think it's unusual for people to get trapped in this way - one's old eogic sense absorbs new ideas in order transform itself into something better, and then judges itself when it struggles. Cut through the entire thing by locating "who" practices mindfulness, "who" wishes to get rid of thoughts, "who" utilizes practices, "who" turns things into "problems".

All of those things are functions of the ego, so actually look for it. So pin it down precisely - can you do that? Let us know what you find when you do this, OK? Just locate ego and then come back here and tell us what you find. Be very observant - see what is real (and by that I mean what never changes) and what isn't. Whatever you find that is constant and unchanging is the real you, and that which changes isn't. So look for what is real and what isn't and then if you have more questions come back here and we'll discuss it further.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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boogeyman
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Re: Obsessive thinking about Presence?

Post by boogeyman » Thu Apr 03, 2008 9:25 pm

This is one of my biggest ego traps, too.

I like to listen to Eckharts CD's alot, and do so quite often. It brings me to the present moment. He makes me remember again :D

Sometimes when I notice that I'm trapped in thought and I have a painbody attack
I try to "apply" the teachings. I hear Eckharts teachings in my head, like
"observe your mind", "be present", "allow your painbody to be there".

Not very helpfull when it's all in your head. Just thinking about it but not actually doing the practice. It just goes round and round.

The best pointer for me still is, to bring awareness to breathing.
That works, as long as I can keep it there.

innerhike
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Re: Obsessive thinking about Presence?

Post by innerhike » Fri Apr 04, 2008 10:57 pm

The more one practices, the less one needs to rely on the words of others.

The more one experiences peace, the less one needs to be reminded of it.

Simple solution: increase your practice, whatever it is.

Go with your own feeling of peace. That is the key. You have to do this for yourself. By yourself.

No matter how many maps you read, that is not the same thing as walking to your destination.

Now the destination is not very far from you, granted, but the pattern of resistance can only be evaporated by the heat of practice.

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astaroth
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Re: Obsessive thinking about Presence?

Post by astaroth » Tue Apr 08, 2008 6:13 pm

The mind can be a very nasty, a dangerous - even a deadly place - when you think you are in it!

Go back to the source of where all things come into being, also "yourself". Whatever is the content of consciousness isn't you. You are the dreamer of the dream you call "world". The dream may be horrible to the person in it - to you, the real you as the witness of the "state of waking", of course, it isn't. The dream has nothing to do with you, because outside of the dream which kind of "you" is there?

The "me" is in the world - while you aren't. Watch the me, watch other bodies, other dream-protagonists in your dream and know that nothing percievable is real. What you are could be called "the fact of being aware that something is there"

Know that thoughts and feelings belong to this body, reading these lines, not to you. You are not in the world.

Hope this helps,
astaroth
...you might remember me from such educational films as "Zen for couch-potatoes - The wisdom of never doing anything" or "Buddha from da hood - Was he a brother?"

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