Is awareness supposed to help?

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saad
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Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by saad » Thu May 29, 2008 8:02 pm

hello,

Is Awareness supposed to relieve the pain that the painbody is experiencing? Because I know that all of today I have been feeling meloncholic and I know that is the painbody, I feel it right now, I allow it to be Or at least there is something allowing it to be.

I know right now that I am not experiencing peaceful essence. I'm aware that there is pain and I am aware that I am saying no.

but awareness doesn't remove/relieve pain, it just knows its there.

So how does one releive pain?

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by Sighclone » Thu May 29, 2008 9:01 pm

I think you are confusing Awareness with 'being in the Now.' Re-read PON pp. 64 ff. Consciousness of and being "in" the present moment alleviates problems and their associated pain.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by D'ray » Thu May 29, 2008 11:11 pm

saad wrote: I know right now that I am not experiencing peaceful essence. I'm aware that there is pain and I am aware that I am saying no.
That's it right there. Who is wanting to feel peaceful essence? Who does not want to feel pain? Search the "want-er" if you can locate it. Is it real?

If you are wanting to get rid of the pain, it means you are not accepting the moment as it is and therefore it creates more conflict. Who wants to change your state? If its pain, then be present with it. Be aware also of the urge to change your meloncholic state.
There's no "I" to become enlightened. The "I" can have spiritual experiences.

DON'T resist the RESISTANCE! The resistance is there. Walk into it. Feel it. Become one with it.

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by innerhike » Thu May 29, 2008 11:57 pm

This is my experience of "removing/reducing pain":

Pain arises.

I sit with it.

I journal.

I invite it, in all of its "glory" to come bite my butt. :-)

I just sit, I just sit, I just sit, for hours.

I remain with the pain, with the clouds without wanting it to go away, without running from it, without trying any kind of mind trick or strategy.

I just let everything be as it is.

The pain, me, all of it.

At some point the pain dissipates (hours later) and I sink into peace.

The end.

And it turns out that regular sitting in this manner dissipates the hidden pain and reduce the shocks/surprises during the rest of the day.

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by Webwanderer » Fri May 30, 2008 1:04 am

saad wrote:I'm aware that there is pain and I am aware that I am saying no.

but awareness doesn't remove/relieve pain, it just knows its there.
I presume you are referring to emotional pain and not a physical ailment. That being said, in experiencing your pain why are you saying "no"?...or for that matter why would you say anything? Saying no, or some other mind focusing dialog, will only serve to prolong what you are trying to be rid of.

It's a bit of a paradox that making efforts to rid yourself of pain is likely to help prolong it. Neuro anatomist Jill Bolte-Taylor, who is noted in this forum (and elsewhere) as having had a left brain stroke, killing the ego she once identified with, has stated that the brain chemistry that floods the body during emotionally painful episodes completely dissapates in 90 seconds. The only reason it continues longer is that the mind, through its thinking about it, continues to stimulate more of the pain inducing chemistry.

When you are experiencing pain, embrace it in intimacy. Do not think about the cause, or the justification, or the blame. Just see it as an opportunity to be with a unique experience fully and openly, and without analysis. Be with the experience as clearly as posible for as long as it lasts (give it at least 90 seconds of thought free expression). Allow it to flow through you unrestricted. Note the egos efforts to engage it with thought, and let them go mid stream. Express also a sense of gratitude (not in words), for the richness of genuine sensation that life has offered, regardless of its origin.

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by saad » Fri May 30, 2008 1:44 am

Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

Those posts made so much sense, I did hear of Jill Bolte Taylor! I watched her podcast. Thank you, thats useful insight, in someways I have heard this before but this has put it in a certain way.

Thank you :), I'll let you know how I go.

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by saad » Fri May 30, 2008 1:46 am

But wait! How do you know you are accepting or not accepting the pain!?

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by Webwanderer » Fri May 30, 2008 5:31 am

saad wrote:But wait! How do you know you are accepting or not accepting the pain!?
Are you thinking about it? Do you wish it wasn't there? OR Is it okay, just part of the landscape of the moment. Do you avoid the experience? Or do you embrace it openly?

Listen to, or observe, your pain in the same way you would listen to the birds sing, or to the whisper of the wind in the trees. Your pain may seem discordant, but it's the direct effect of some misunderstood judgment you have made in your life. If you let it, it will teach you to be accepting of the people and events that come your way.

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by Sighclone » Fri May 30, 2008 6:51 am

Emotional pain is part of the pain body...you can feed it with agreement ("yes, I am very very mad and I should be mad") and other thoughts and angst. That's an active mental task. You fire up the big ol' thinking brain. You can repeat and repeat how mad or sad you are and load it up with energy. Or you can be the space for it. I really like "the work" by Byron Katie. Her book on this is "Loving What is". Go buy it and do 'the work'. Do you want to solve a problem or do you want to have a problem? Is part of your ego-story "oh very sad and abused me?" Are you adding your pain to your self-image? Or as Eckhart says in ANE, page 77: "Do you want drama or do you want peace?"

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

saad
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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by saad » Fri May 30, 2008 1:19 pm

hmmmm
Emotional pain is part of the pain body...you can feed it with agreement ("yes, I am very very mad and I should be mad") and other thoughts and angst. That's an active mental task.
but isn't agreeing with it what we're doing when accepting pain because isn't the agreement the pain?
Listen to, or observe, your pain in the same way you would listen to the birds sing, or to the whisper of the wind in the trees. Your pain may seem discordant, but it's the direct effect of some misunderstood judgment you have made in your life. If you let it, it will teach you to be accepting of the people and events that come your way.
So pain is just another part of this world, its just here, its not meant to not be here?

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by Sighclone » Fri May 30, 2008 5:25 pm

saad -

Sorry. When I said "agreeing", I actually meant "condoning" (which is what my sample text was about). Accepting is simply accepting, not condoning, not sympathizing. It is saying "hello pain...yes, there you are...stay right there ( as long as you can) while I let your feeling be..." It is fundamentally a passive experience, a watching experience. At least for me.

Pain happens. Painbodies exist. Egos happen. Our job on the path is full surrender once we see them operating. Yup, even egoic behavior. The progress is in the recognition of it. Part of being unconscious, asleep, is not recognizing the ego as it canters along. It does not do well once we observe it. It does even worse when we investigate it with Presence of Mind.


Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by saad » Fri May 30, 2008 6:10 pm

hello pain...yes, there you are...stay right there ( as long as you can) while I let your feeling be..."
I watched Eckhart's lectures and he says a similar thing but the thing is are you actually supposed to say that actively? How do I know its not the painbody asking that question as a form of deception? Sometimes I think it is, but then who is it that that is thinking that? Then who is it that is thinking that? etc...Its just an endless pattern and I will never be able to find myself in that...

am I on the verge of something? (Or did I just become unconscious by asking that question?)

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by Sighclone » Fri May 30, 2008 6:14 pm

Those sound like a bunch of ego-based thoughts to try to discern some detail. The answer is passive acceptance - let it be. Let it all be. It may return. Let it be again. It might take hours for the pain to diminish. It might take centuries. But the response is always the same: surrender and accept. By the way, you cannot do those things and grind away mentally at the same time.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by saad » Fri May 30, 2008 6:28 pm

It might take hours for the pain to diminish. It might take centuries.
So your saying I may feel pain for the rest of my life? Is there nothing I can do about this but let myself be like this?

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Re: Is awareness supposed to help?

Post by Sighclone » Fri May 30, 2008 6:35 pm

I am the last person in the universe to know anything about the time it takes to heal a mental disorder for anyone else, or even myself. Of course, I do not know. It could all end tomorrow, it might not.

All I know are a couple of techniques mentioned in Eckhart's book. They have been repeated in this forum. They have worked for other people. They do not involve thinking or blaming, by the way.

Be well,

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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