How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby melissafan75 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 3:42 am

I have been reading about the law of attraction, and I have learned how to make many positive changes in my life based on LOA. Eckhart's position about living in the moment confuses me. Is he saying that we shouldn't visualize what we want the universe to give us? That involves using the mind to think about the future. Any ideas?

Thanks! Melissafan75
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby JeeNyu_JI » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:24 am

i think what Eckhart is trying to get across is that it is perfectly fine to pursue the world of forms, have goals in which to aim for, things to work towards - this is our outer purpose. But there is also the inner purpose, which is to become enlightened or awakenend. The problem arises when you forget your inner purpose and exclusively pursue your outer purpose which by nature is unstable and constantly fleeting.

at least...thats my interpretation
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby kiki » Mon Aug 11, 2008 6:01 am

Tolle is about awakening to your true nature, which is sometimes referred to as "enlightenment". Your true nature isn't something found in the world of form but lies in formless awareness. The Law of Attraction, as I understand it, is about using certain truths about the world of form to bring into your life things or circumstances which are desired. Those things may provide a greater degree of comfort and a temporary sense of happiness but they won't necessarily lead you to the realization of your true essence. In fact, they may delay that realization to the degree in which you believe you need the LOA to be fulfilled or attain a sense of wholeness.
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby James » Mon Aug 11, 2008 7:24 am

Nothing wrong with attracting things that you desire, however don't confuse that with awakening to the truth of being. Also know that whatever you attract is but a temporary, or impermanent form; and that todays good may turn bad tomorrow, as can everything in the world of duality. Here is a hypothetical example of how dualism might work: I desire to have a puppy. I am at the pet store, one it is pulling at my heart strings; and It's is too cute to resist. Seems joyous and even noble to adopt a pet that has no home, right? Then what happens, it pees in the house, or chews the legs off the furniture; or it ends up needing constant medical attention, and the joy turns to anguish. It could be a puppy or a car, your house, spouse, career; you name it, the same applies.

Such is the world of form with its pairs of opposites. If you want to attract something, ask where is the desire coming from? If it is coming from the mind it will have elements of duality.

Manifesting promises that if you tap into the source of your being, the desire will take form. The paradox here is that as long as one desires to attract something, they are not fully accessing the source of their being, since desire is a mental state. The only way to truly awaken, is to have no ulterior motive, no desires. Then what is manifested comes from Presence not desire or human thinking. What results may not be what you thought you wanted, but it is what is needed in a higher sense of fulfillment, spirit fulfilling itself. I know that may sound like a bitter pill to swallow, because humans are wired to seek pleasure and fulfillment in the world of form.

So Make yourself comfortable and fulfill your desires as long as it is enjoyable and possible to do so, knowing that you will get both good and bad from doing so. And also don't mistake that for awakening to truth; it is merely a demonstration of how the mind can work, how it reflects what is put in it. It will only bring a temporary sense of fulfillment. Metaphysics is a step on the way to awakening.

James
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby melissafan75 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 1:34 pm

Thank you for your replies. I hate to say that I am still confused. Should I not intentionally utilize the LOA? By doing so, am I serving my mind and not my true purpose? I am not an unintelligent person. I just can't see beyond this contradiction.

For instance, when I have requested what I desire from the universe (which I have), should I just let it go and not think about it again to see if it manifests? Should I list my gratitudes (this can involve looking to the past as well as looking at the moment)?

Thank you! melissafan75
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby James » Mon Aug 11, 2008 5:58 pm

Melissa... wrote
Should I not intentionally utilize the LOA? By doing so, am I serving my mind and not my true purpose? I am not an unintelligent person.


I agree you are not unintelligent; this is something that trips up most aspirants. It sounds like you are combining two approaches to living. It may be difficult to reconcile LOA with Tolle's approach. Dropping the word should from your thinking would help you though, we are all free to live in a way that suits us best. Eckhart is giving pointers to awaken to our true nature, rather than a mandate for living. Many people find they are not ready to fully commit to awakening, there is no sense of shame or failure in that. One can only do what they are ready willing and able to do.

Someone I know quite well, is very much involved in something called: The Intenders of the Highest Good http://intenders.com/ She has read PON and ANE, and enjoyed them, but could not apply it well to her life due to the differences in approaches, and lack of readiness to do so. She enjoys manifesting or attracting, and is actually doing fairly well at it; her life is looking good on the surface by human standards, and she is relatively happy, some of the "intending" has a selfless compassionate flavor to it, and I believe she means well. But I also noticed the drama and attachment in her life, that comes with the territory of desiring things and conditions. She often lives mentally in the future and past. Recalling what did not work out and hoping for what will be good going forward. She tends to get angry when things don't go as "intended". She has trouble being still and quiet, and is often on the go with her busy lifestyle of creating, the striving often results in conflict and accumulation of stress.

So the rhetorical question: Is she manifesting from her source and true nature, or is it mind and personal sense? I would say there is a dualistic quality to her approach to life. It is coming from a sense of separation from source, and wanting to control conditions which is what we all do when we feel separate and cut off from life. This is egoic sense. Although striving to be selfless and compassionate is better than the opposite of this. An unawake human will never succeed in being selfless, at least not for long; and their actions and outcomes will have a dualistic quality, the good they attempt will have unintended side effects. Which is why all human attempts to solve world problems have failed. True selflessness is a natural outcome of awakening.

One more thing, Tolle speaks about this at a retreat. He says if many humans operating from egoic sense, learn how to use the mind to attract or manifest what they desire, it would have devastating consequences to the planet. At the end of ANE, Eckhart reveals that awakening goes beyond just meeting our own needs and wanting to be individually free. There is larger context of global awakening of the collective consciousness that is occurring. Our higher purpose is really to awaken to our oneness with the totality.

So I would say, do what you are comfortable and drawn to do. You may be able to combine some elements of both, LOA and true awakening, I don't know. My suggestion is to simply follow your instincts and intuition, rather than adhering to someone else's blueprint exactly. You can be awake and set goals that arise from Presence, and carry them out in "clock time"; but it always takes place in the Now, the planning and the fulfillment of it is always now. This is different than desire and attracting. It is more like opening to the expression of what already is. Make a point to be completely honest and true to yourself, find your authentic self and let that guide you, that is the best anyone can do.

James
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby melissafan75 » Mon Aug 11, 2008 9:43 pm

I am feeling frustrated because I am truly struggling to figure out which approach is better for me: PON or LOA. I keep analyzing both, and I don't think I could stay "sane" trying to use one approach at times, then the other. I would constantly be analyzing, therefore never truly living in the moment, without emotion. I know feeling frustrated is not allowing me to feel my normal sense of gratitude, thus allowing me to attract more that I desire.

When I look at what I am grateful for, could I look around and think of things that are around me at that moment? Would that help to incorporate NOW into my life? But at the same time, does the feeling of gratitude discount the concept of accepting what is as it is?

Thank you! Melissafan75 :D
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby James » Mon Aug 11, 2008 10:07 pm

You wrote:
When I look at what I am grateful for, could I look around and think of things that are around me at that moment? Would that help to incorporate NOW into my life?


Yes gratitude is beautiful, there is no sense of lack or wanting in gratitude, yet it opens the way for us to sense Grace in our experience, sort of like opening the tap for it to flow. It flows through us though, rather than to us. It is the reverse of human thinking. And It is a Now experience.

But at the same time, does the feeling of gratitude discount the concept of accepting what is as it is?


Not at all, as long as it is sincere; gratitude includes peace and acceptance of what is, it is very nourishing. Gratitude is an excellent way to be tuned in to the Grace that Is. Why don't you stay with that idea for a while and see how that feels?

James
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby Sighclone » Tue Aug 12, 2008 7:26 am

First - thanks again James - beautiful expressions.

mf75: If you are using LOA to attract any thing or person or job that could cause attachment, then PON and ANE and nonduality are contrary to your intentions. The ego has content, which is that attachment. The Self does not.

Here is a suggestion: set Eckhart aside for one year ( or month or day, or whatever). Just go with LOA. If you are content with the results of that effort, then your question is answered and your conundrum is over. For this lifetime.

But if there is a deeper longing in you, get ready to give up any attachment to anything material. You won't be "gorgeous self-possessed professional woman in BMW convertible with Italian shoes, therefore to be envied." Get ready to enter the figurative nunnery. And the day you give up attachment to the last things, really cast them all away, and the thoughts and feelings that go with them is the day that you will merge with the Source of all these items. And none of them will matter ever again. Some will come and some will go but they will be your personal set of ripples on the surface of the ocean, which will be your new home. Oh yes, once you are home, many things may appear, but you won't be attached to any of them.

But you cannot have your cake and eat it too...

Namaste, Andy
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby James » Tue Aug 12, 2008 12:25 pm

Melissa
As Andy pointed out, you have a choice, that is the beautiful thing about Grace, there is no coercion. But choices bring consequences, and there are often trade offs in life. If LOA seems to be your niche (at this time), you could still be aware of the Now, whenever possible. You can also return to the Now and stillness whenever you feel the need to do so, and let that feeling of gratitude nourish your being. Complete fulfillment arises from true Presence, when we don't desire anything, and it does manifest effortlessly without negative side effects; although it may not look like what our ego had in mind. Eventually perhaps you will grow tired of LOA, or will want something deeper; or maybe not, who knows? Life is mysterious; go with the flow.

Thanks again for the PM, glad this dialog has been helpful.

Enjoy

James
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby lucy » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:26 am

Hi Melissa

I posted a similar question about LOA on this board about a year ago. I can feel your confusion and frustration. Here is what I discovered: Tolle and LOA can be understood if you take the analogy of the goose that lays the golden eggs. LOA offers you a method to attract the golden eggs (world of form). Tolle offers you a way to discover that you are the goose laying those golden eggs.
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby melissafan75 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 12:33 am

I like that analogy!

I have been reading more of PON, and it seems like LOA may go along with NOW more than I orginally thought. It goes along with the goose analogy... you will attract and manifest positive things that you will really enjoy/appreciate if you are truly yourself, not driven by ego desires. Am I getting there James?

Also, I have noticed that as I read the PON, I am becoming angry at times. Is this resistance I feel? How do I truly get over resistance and get to a peaceful place? It seems that before PON, I was very happy and attracting positivity into my life. Now, I feel everything is off ballance again, and I feel uneasy.
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby James » Wed Aug 13, 2008 1:47 am

Melissa said:
you will attract and manifest positive things that you will really enjoy/appreciate if you are truly yourself, not driven by ego desires. Am I getting there James?


Yes you are starting to get it, Lucy's goose analogy is good, the secret is just be the Goose with a capital G; don't look for the Golden Eggs, the golden eggs are just a decoy to bring you to truth. Wouldn't you rather be the source of fulfillment?

Is this resistance I feel? How do I truly get over resistance and get to a peaceful place?

Trying to get peace is not much different than looking for golden eggs, they both are transient. Don't resist the resistance, just allow everything to be as it is, all the feelings thoughts experiences, maybe you will experience peace maybe not. Peace is usually a by-product of complete acceptance, or allowing, but don't seek it. Open to your natural state of being without trying to determine or control what that will be like, it could be many things besides Peace. Relax and stop trying ;-) there is nothing to achieve. Simply be as you are now. That is easy enough right? Well it is easy only when the mind starts to get out of the way. Check out Tolle's Gateways To Now recording, it is beautiful and relaxing. Many people find it to be profound, as it helps open the door.

James
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby melissafan75 » Wed Aug 13, 2008 2:11 am

I received an email from Tolle's website, stating I should listen to a video (#3) from his conversations: an evening with eckhart tolle (icon is on his main page). He states about vision boards ("treasure maps") that LOA can go hand in hand with PON, simply because you can feel abundant in that moment that you look at what you want, but as long as you can feel abundant in the moment even without it. I highly recommend anyone to listen. It is set up as a question and answer session with an audience.

James mentioned if it is easy to just be, I do not know if it is for me or not. I think I am the type of person who feels that I need to have a direct hand in creating my life, now and in the future. My favorite statement I have said for years is: I have designed my life exactly the way I want it. Vision boards and gratitude journals have shown me directly and with visual evidence what I have brought into my life (it is incredible how pictures on your board will manifest in your life so quickly, and in interesting forms sometimes!). I feel that since reading PON, I may not be able to go back to that past level of excitement and wonderment of what I have helped to create in my life. I want to continue to think positively (I have been a bit negative and upset processing PON), so I can help to create the one absolutely incredible that that will benefit many people, not just me.

Thank you!!!! :)
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Re: How does this relate to the Law of Attraction?

Postby James » Wed Aug 13, 2008 3:41 am

Melissa
I understand where you are coming from. I won't try to convince you any further. It sounds like your path is clear to you.

But I will clarify something that I said. The state of Being is not synonymous with a state of passivity, most find that when they awaken to the truth, "Being", that they are engaged, energetic, creative but in an effortless way, a selfless way. It is sometimes referred to as "Effortless Effort". It is true, there is often much resistance and human conditioning standing in the way of our natural state of being, hence it is a conflict for many. That is not to imply you are wrong in the way you choose to live, you are an equally valuable part of the totality. Each individual is unique and functions differently. A different expression of the one. Thanks for the tip about video 3

As I said earlier, go with the flow, do what feels most appropriate, only you know what that is.

Enjoy

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