Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 2:32 pm

sevenworlds wrote:Hi Randji,

I'm not really making a point there, simply an observation. Though I would be leaning towards the other way if I had to commit. When the desire to change yourself disappears then you have no desire to change the world, to free anybody else. Which is how it appears to be in UG and Mooji. If someone comes with a question they will respond but they cannot simply get up and speak to the world about this because they don't see anything there to be changed. This has resonated with my experience for a while now because I am left in a situation where I am wondering what to do now. If this had been any other kind of experience I should have been writing songs and on a mission trying to spread the 'message' to the world but even that isn't really there anymore. Strangely, it doesn't worry me, it's just slightly bewildering. I'm 29, what the hell do I do now? Songs still occasionally come but I can't put together a masterplan to release and market them. In fact, at the moment I've been playing with the idea of just sticking them up for free download and seeing what happens.

So I can totally relate to UG not being able to give formal talks. I'm not saying Eckhart shouldn't be capable of being inspired off his own back to write books and talk but this is where it gets tricky because many are doing that and have built up companies and organisations around this when it is really about them. Even the subtlest yet best intended movement to save/change the world in some way has a "you" behind it.


Hi 7,

Wow I thought you were thinking the other way. Actually you took the words out of my mouth 7. I feel exactly the same way minus the music part which I am so horrible that to carry a tune I would have to excercise a whole year for!
You know I have been blessed in my life to sit with many tecahers, masters whatever one wish to name them. By far the ones that just got up and spoke had their own agenda at mind. The ones that said nothing and just waited for the next question did not want nor need to change a thing because they were perfect in their own life and were just there to share. Ramana Mahashri,Nisargadatta Maharaj, and a host of others are the same way.
It is unusal for them to give a speach or anything without being asked first.

Now I also have to admit I have not followed nor listen to ET that much so I do not know his MO. But to be sure I really become turned off if I go to listen to someone I feel is spiritual and all I hear is a sermon.
So thanks for the sharing you know they say that at 29 it is suppose to be your Saturan return in astrology which means that when your in your 29th year all the planets are in the same place as they were when you were born so it is a powerful 2nd begining that we all get every 29 years. If you believe in that sort of thing. I need to be careful here before I sound like a new ager that visits this board but it is a fun thing to think about.
Oddly enough I have seen people, friends of mine make amazing life changes whn it came around year 29th so who knows.
Peace
Randji
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:28 pm

DWBH1953 wrote:
sevenworlds wrote:So thanks for the sharing you know they say that at 29 it is suppose to be your Saturan return in astrology which means that when your in your 29th year all the planets are in the same place as they were when you were born so it is a powerful 2nd begining that we all get every 29 years. If you believe in that sort of thing. I need to be careful here before I sound like a new ager that visits this board but it is a fun thing to think about.
Oddly enough I have seen people, friends of mine make amazing life changes whn it came around year 29th so who knows.
Peace
Randji


I don't believe in numerology or the significance of numbers but I'll share this with you.

The number 7 seems to have popped up at significant moments throughout my life. Number 9 to a lesser degree. The flat number I lived in for most of my childhood was 7. I became mysteriously ill not long after I turned 17. It was diagnosed as Chronic Fatigue Syndrome but now I understand it to be some sort of pre-cursor to what is happening now. A month or so after I turned 27, I was suddenly drawn to conspiracy theories which moved into spirituality. At the beginning of 2007, while I was still 27, I stumbled upon Eckhart and that was it - something changed in me permanently. My mother, who had moved into a new flat three weeks before she died that year, was aged 47 and the flat number was again 7. Her funeral was on the 27th. The family cat died a few months later, aged 17. To top it all off, I had to move from the rented flat I was in (circumstances out of my control) into the property I'm now in, which is number 17.

When all this happened at age 27, I don't know how, but I somehow always had a feeling it would culminate when I turned 29. That happened last September but nothing much changed so I forgot all about it. Still aches and pains each day and all sorts of other uncomfortable things carried on as they had since 2007. Since this year has started though there seems to be a new clarity and understanding. There are still pains and things breaking up in my shoulders, neck and head but there is now an almost constant space/peace around it and this feeling that I really don't know what state I am in.

I don't know why I had to share all of that, my story is of no interest to you, but then again, maybe someone reading this will make something of it. I got a great deal of understanding of what was happening to me through reading accounts of UG's "calamity".
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 3:43 pm

[quote="sevenworlds
I don't know why I had to share all of that, my story is of no interest to you, but then again, maybe someone reading this will make something of it. I got a great deal of understanding of what was happening to me through reading accounts of UG's "calamity".[/quote]

thanks who knows why we share but we do.
Wow your Mom was very young when she passed away.
I am 55 but I never relate to age but when I saw your wrote 47 it hit me I am not that young!
thanks again sory about your CFS I hear so many folks with CFS now I wonder what they called it years ago when it had no label?
Peace
Randji
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Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?/Mooji Interview

Postby James » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:18 pm

Sevenworlds, I watched some of the Mooji interview you linked; I enjoyed it.


I made a few notes of quotations I liked, these are taken out of context, I plan to watch the rest of the interview when I have the time.

james

Mooji on the Never Not Here show #43

Mooji:
"The thinker and thought arise simultaneously." (also paraphrased discussion with interviewer: There is a belief in an entity that can benefit from a thought, so thought is entertained as a necessary part of who I am. Therefore I need to act on these thoughts.)

Mooji:
"Thought can molest you if you don't understand your nature."...

"It is the identification with thought that then has energy or some power."...

"If you have no interest in thought, it will not register."...

"If you have no interest; maybe you begin a sort of engagement with a thought, then you abandon it. Then immediately it returns to emptiness, to silence, to insignificance."...

(then he uses the analogy of thoughts as clouds forming in a blue sky, they appear and disappear, he more or less says the origin of thought is mysterious.)

Mooji:
"somehow identification takes place, when consciousness is manifesting through the instrument of the body. Identification takes place and arises as I am this particular body."...

"It seems to be part of the way consciousness manifests, there is no individual responsible for it."...

"The human being is the effect of consciousness, but not the cause or controller of consciousness."...

-
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?/Mooji Interview

Postby DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:45 pm

James wrote:Sevenworlds, I watched some of the Mooji interview you linked; I enjoyed it.


I made a few notes of quotations I liked, these are taken out of context, I plan to watch the rest of the interview when I have the time.

james

Mooji on the Never Not Here show #43

Mooji:
"The thinker and thought arise simultaneously." (also paraphrased discussion with interviewer: There is a belief in an entity that can benefit from a thought, so thought is entertained as a necessary part of who I am. Therefore I need to act on these thoughts.)

Mooji:
"Thought can molest you if you don't understand your nature."...

"It is the identification with thought that then has energy or some power."...

"If you have no interest in thought, it will not register."...

"If you have no interest; maybe you begin a sort of engagement with a thought, then you abandon it. Then immediately it returns to emptiness, to silence, to insignificance."...

(then he uses the analogy of thoughts as clouds forming in a blue sky, they appear and disappear, he more or less says the origin of thought is mysterious.)

Mooji:
"somehow identification takes place, when consciousness is manifesting through the instrument of the body. Identification takes place and arises as I am this particular body."...

"It seems to be part of the way consciousness manifests, there is no individual responsible for it."...

"The human being is the effect of consciousness, but not the cause or controller of consciousness."...

-



He is good if you lñike the guru thing..he is very non dual but has a warm non intellectual personality.
Randji
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Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Thu Feb 12, 2009 7:59 pm

DWBH1953 wrote:thanks who knows why we share but we do.
Wow your Mom was very young when she passed away.
I am 55 but I never relate to age but when I saw your wrote 47 it hit me I am not that young!
thanks again sory about your CFS I hear so many folks with CFS now I wonder what they called it years ago when it had no label?
Peace
Randji


Yes, she had a completely clean bill of health and everyone said she looked about 10 years younger than her age. She died suddenly of a stroke. The doctor was mystified, he had no explanation for it. Oddly enough, she worked at a pharmacy where she initially fell ill but they never spotted it. They called me out to pick her up, told me to rest her at home as it was virus, and the next day she died.

I have little faith in doctors or modern medicine. They are like scientists - they have no idea about this reality and the body. I say that not just because of that experience. CFS is just a label. I was getting this crawling sensation in my scalp and all sorts of other symptoms I later found out are related to kundalini awakening. Again, that is another label, but the fact is something was going on energetically with my body. They sent me for all sort of tests and scans over a year and couldn't find anything so they called it CFS and signed me off work sick. I didn't know what was happening to me. The symptoms went away after a couple of years but I never felt the same again.

I don't like to use these terms but my feeling on it is my crown chakra somehow became activated, energy flooded my system and put me out of whack for a couple of years. After that I was left with periods of intense depression on and off, insomnia, strong itches, sore throats and a variety of minor complaints/sensations for the following 10 years. I rarely bothered going to the doctor but when I did they could never help. Since my experience at 27, most of these things have sorted themselves out. Our bodies have superior intelligence to any doctor but we never give it a chance.

Again I don't mind saying all of this because someone out there might be in a similar situation.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby lucy » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:02 pm

Sevenworlds,

You make a very good point about Eckhart being able to talk to an audience without being prompted. I seem to recall Eckhart describing it as oscillating between REALITY and conceptual.
He admits at best his words are only pointers, but pointers that carry the perfume of truth. "If the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" then even Mooji (who I resonate with greatly) even
though he may be responding to fresh questions is stepping out of the flow by merely uttering a single word. Francis Lucille also talks about this in a very fresh manner.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 8:38 pm

lucy wrote:Sevenworlds,

You make a very good point about Eckhart being able to talk to an audience without being prompted. I seem to recall Eckhart describing it as oscillating between REALITY and conceptual.
He admits at best his words are only pointers, but pointers that carry the perfume of truth. "If the Tao that can be told is not the eternal Tao" then even Mooji (who I resonate with greatly) even
though he may be responding to fresh questions is stepping out of the flow by merely uttering a single word. Francis Lucille also talks about this in a very fresh manner.


Hi Lucy,
I liked what you just said. Not to sound rude but I do make a distinction between teachers and what I call masters. ET is a excellent teacher and I really place him up high as far as having the right words for the right concept. There are many teachers but few masters.
What a master is in my world is a person that is not only awakened and liberated but also has the ability to be so much in Presence that they create a space I mean a very real energetic space for a person to wake up in. It is like osmosis the vibes are so strong that they carry you into Oneness just by being around them. I do not see ET, or Ayda or the very many who teach today being able to do this. I wish there were more of them.

I never sat with Mooji so I cannot say but Papaji was one that had this gift also Tony Parsons has it, and Sailor Bob also. So your correct most of them can only point but a few can do more than point they can create. Not sure why this came up but it did so I wrote it.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby lucy » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:43 pm

Hi Randji

I am intrigued by this idea of "transmission" (for lack of a better word). Many people have explained it as becoming "trasparent" because the "individual person" dissolves allowing Oneness to shine through. It is Oneness that has the capacity to "draw" an apparent individual into this Space. I am not denying there are masters out there who are "trasparent" enough to be able to hold you there, but I think this can only take place if the student is not holding back. Mooji apparently has his awakening at Papaji's feet. There are many people who have also awakened at Eckhart's talks. Whose to know when "Grace" decides to grace itself. The only master whose feet I am willing to sit at is that of the mighty oak in my front yard who always stands silently grounded in the here and now.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby eagle2phoenix » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:26 am

Since most of you have been talking about teachers and masters whom I little knowledge of, i did some searches on the net for Mooji, Papaji etc. I found this nice website aptly named after ET's Stillness Speaks.

http://stillnessspeaks.com/about_atma_vicara by Atma-Vicara, a Texas Non Profit Corporation, nurtures the community of spiritual seekers who pursue the discovery of Absolute Truth through direct Self inquiry. It acts as a repository, aggregating published material and resources of awakened teachers.

I have not gone thru all of it but it sounds like a cornucopia of teachings by all past masters and present teachers.

Incidentally, on who is a master and who is not, I read an article by the late Osho that Jesus did not die on the cross (reason being it takes more than 6 hours for a man to die on the cross, and He was crucified at 3 pm and was brought down 3 hours later) but was brought to Kashmir where he lived on quietly as an ordinary person so as not to draw attention to himself.

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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:38 am

lucy wrote:Hi Randji

I am intrigued by this idea of "transmission" (for lack of a better word). Many people have explained it as becoming "trasparent" because the "individual person" dissolves allowing Oneness to shine through. It is Oneness that has the capacity to "draw" an apparent individual into this Space. I am not denying there are masters out there who are "trasparent" enough to be able to hold you there, but I think this can only take place if the student is not holding back. Mooji apparently has his awakening at Papaji's feet. There are many people who have also awakened at Eckhart's talks. Whose to know when "Grace" decides to grace itself. The only master whose feet I am willing to sit at is that of the mighty oak in my front yard who always stands silently grounded in the here and now.


Why only the tree Lucy are you afraid of something?
Of course the student not holding back is part of it but only part.
Many people awaken at ET talks I dunno maybe. What I do know is awakening is handed out in todays neo-advaita circles as normal as turning on you TV to watch your favorite show. I just think theres a little more to it than that.
Peace
Randji
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Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby sevenworlds » Fri Feb 13, 2009 1:37 pm

DWBH1953 wrote:What I do know is awakening is handed out in todays neo-advaita circles as normal as turning on you TV to watch your favorite show. I just think theres a little more to it than that.


Yes, exactly right Randji.

For someone who is ready/ripe to wake up, anything could do it. The point of true awakening is almost instantaneous - it is out of time so you don't really know what has happened. Yet it seems in many cases of true awakening, life gradually leads that person to a teacher of some sort. The moment of awakening may happen in the teacher's presence and so to outsiders it can look as if the teacher did something magical, when in reality it was simply that the student was ready and just needed that final nudge off the cliff. I think this is where it gets silly because many jump on the bandwagon and start claiming they are feeling things from a teacher when it is all thought-induced experience.

People can greatly misunderstand a teacher too. If you are chasing spirituality through the mind you can read anything into their words. I've heard Papaji often used to tell people that they'd got it and to go home and spread the word and they took that to mean they were enlightened and ready to teach. Andrew Cohen and Gangaji are two well-known students who did this. It was a test. UG once said that whatever potential is there in you will be brought out by coming to see him. That doesn't mean you will awaken. It means if there is a murderer or conman inside you, it will be brought out, if there is a great artist there or a businessman, it will be brought out. A true teacher will not interfere in the unfolding of someone's destiny.

If there were as many enlightened masters teaching as is claimed and as many students awakening, this world would look very different.
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby DWBH1953 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:31 pm

sevenworlds wrote:
DWBH1953 wrote:What I do know is awakening is handed out in todays neo-advaita circles as normal as turning on you TV to watch your favorite show. I just think theres a little more to it than that.


Yes, exactly right Randji.

For someone who is ready/ripe to wake up, anything could do it. The point of true awakening is almost instantaneous - it is out of time so you don't really know what has happened. Yet it seems in many cases of true awakening, life gradually leads that person to a teacher of some sort. The moment of awakening may happen in the teacher's presence and so to outsiders it can look as if the teacher did something magical, when in reality it was simply that the student was ready and just needed that final nudge off the cliff. I think this is where it gets silly because many jump on the bandwagon and start claiming they are feeling things from a teacher when it is all thought-induced experience.

People can greatly misunderstand a teacher too. If you are chasing spirituality through the mind you can read anything into their words. I've heard Papaji often used to tell people that they'd got it and to go home and spread the word and they took that to mean they were enlightened and ready to teach. Andrew Cohen and Gangaji are two well-known students who did this. It was a test. UG once said that whatever potential is there in you will be brought out by coming to see him. That doesn't mean you will awaken. It means if there is a murderer or conman inside you, it will be brought out, if there is a great artist there or a businessman, it will be brought out. A true teacher will not interfere in the unfolding of someone's destiny.

If there were as many enlightened masters teaching as is claimed and as many students awakening, this world would look very different.


Wow I tell you though your young in body you are a old soul filled with wisdom.
Thank you for your words that other may hear.
Yes Papaji was known for playing with people like that. The ones that thought I am all that he would quickly put to test.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby aquarius123esoteric » Fri Feb 13, 2009 3:52 pm

Dear Friends - if we want our world to change, we must first change ourselves. We cannot change other people, but we can change our own perception of and attitudes towards them. The Universe is constantly testing each one of us, to see how far we have got with our spiritual development. Never forget: words are cheap and actions count louder than words!

With love and light,
Aquarius
So long as this you fail to see:
That death precedes re-birth!
A gloomy guest you’ll always be,
Upon this darkling Earth.

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Re: Is Eckhart FULLY realized?

Postby eagle2phoenix » Fri Feb 13, 2009 4:23 pm

Randji, you took the words right out of my mouth (mind). I think 7world is an old soul too. He reminds me of Osho.

7world, you have so much light oozing out of your being.

I feel that, while there are many masters and students now, there are many more of those who are asleep, who are conditioned, who are misled by religion and politics (whichever comes first) about what is right and what is wrong. Imagine in the times of the Buddha, Jesus Christ, Lao Tzu, Muhammad when the world population was much smaller, there was only one master at each time. Now there are some 6 billion people on earth. Naturally there must be more than 1. In the mid 1900s, how many gurus were there from/in India and Japan? There were quite a few, some of whom still live and teach today. Just as lotuses are blossoming each day, so are Masters, teachers and students.

In Brazil we have Paulo Coelho and in Mexico we have Don Miguel Ruiz who basically teach very much the same things. Don Miguel Ruiz's book The Four Agreements - be impeccable with your words, don't take anything personally, don't make assumptions and always do your best - is based on his experience as a Toltec healer-shaman. Coelho's The Alchemist is about becoming who one is.

Again back in the 90s, my meditation teacher told his students that with the turn of the century, more will be awakened as the population grows. Many are awakening as they are having experiences of "remembering" who/what they truly are (what we can say the true calling). Sometimes I do feel that the reason why I go into depression is my true self giving me a kick in the butt for becoming egoistic and materialistic because only with depression do I recoil and go back into my self. Again, what I feel.
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