rain gods and egos

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Sighclone
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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:23 pm

Here is something that does not exist: a second head on my shoulders. I can dwell on that all day and it won't pop up.

A set of behaviors exists within an unconscious person. All the nondualists write in negative terms about that set. They call it the "ego" or "egoing" or something. Labelling a pre-existing pattern of behavior is just a linguistic convenience. The behaviors exist and precede the label...regardless of how much anybody thinks about them.

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Thu Feb 12, 2009 9:45 pm

Sighclone wrote:Here is something that does not exist: a second head on my shoulders. I can dwell on that all day and it won't pop up.

A set of behaviors exists within an unconscious person. All the nondualists write in negative terms about that set. They call it the "ego" or "egoing" or something. Labelling a pre-existing pattern of behavior is just a linguistic convenience. The behaviors exist and precede the label...regardless of how much anybody thinks about them.

Namaste, Andy
Well Andy you kind of lost me there but thats Ok at the end of the day what we have is what we have. If you say the ego exists for you I have no problem at all with that.
If I say the ego does not exist for me then it need not be a problem for you.
I just look at it as all mind that is all and it works for me. Somehow putting a name of ego in their reminds me of the cartoon with the little red devil on your shoulders whispering in your ear and a white angel on your other side so we have good and evil equals the ego to be that is just a animated way of describing the mind at play. As long as your able to see that what more do you really need.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by +Jim+ » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:40 am

Sighclone wrote:Here is something that does not exist: a second head on my shoulders. I can dwell on that all day and it won't pop up.
If you believed that you had a second head it would affect your experience.
There are countless examples of people believing an untruth that greatly affected their experience.
A set of behaviors exists within an unconscious person. All the nondualists write in negative terms about that set. They call it the "ego" or "egoing" or something. Labelling a pre-existing pattern of behavior is just a linguistic convenience. The behaviors exist and precede the label...regardless of how much anybody thinks about them.
You have been taught to believe in the idea of ego - hence that is your experience.
If you explore the nature of thought you may discover something else.
I have a young son who has no concept of ego, I am not going to teach him that concept.
Yes, he sometimes has thoughts that he believes and that causes conflict, but as he becomes more sensitive to the workings of the mind we will explore these thoughts, and I see no reason that he will not awaken to their nature.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 8:50 am

+Jim+ wrote:
Sighclone wrote:Here is something that does not exist: a second head on my shoulders. I can dwell on that all day and it won't pop up.
If you believed that you had a second head it would affect your experience.
There are countless examples of people believing an untruth that greatly affected their experience.
A set of behaviors exists within an unconscious person. All the nondualists write in negative terms about that set. They call it the "ego" or "egoing" or something. Labelling a pre-existing pattern of behavior is just a linguistic convenience. The behaviors exist and precede the label...regardless of how much anybody thinks about them.
You have been taught to believe in the idea of ego - hence that is your experience.
If you explore the nature of thought you may discover something else.
I have a young son who has no concept of ego, I am not going to teach him that concept.
Yes, he sometimes has thoughts that he believes and that causes conflict, but as he becomes more sensitive to the workings of the mind we will explore these thoughts, and I see no reason that he will not awaken to their nature.
Excellent just like the natives I was speaking about.
You know they say the brain is just like a computer garbage in garbage out makes perfect sense to me. I believe 100% in your course of action with your son.
Cheers
randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:10 pm

I do not think it is necessary to believe in the ego to have one. How many angry prisoners with vicious painbodies and big sick egos were in jail in the 18th and 19th centuries? Uh let's see...that was before the word ego was coined by Freud in 1920. Lots of them.

The ego is just a term for a set of behaviors. "Tree" is a term for an organism with leaves and branches. It is just a convenience of language. And it merits great study (or not). It certainly merits discarding.

Eckhart discovered that his ego (full of structure and content as discussed at length in ANE) created a "false self." Remember his famous phrases: "I can't live with myself." "Maybe only one of them is real." The ego is very very real, and the false self created by unconscious identification with it is very very false....phony...not who you are, not who anybody is.

If the ego was not real, was Eckhart's suffering for 29 years real? Oh, it was? And that was caused by identification with a false self created by what? By nothing?

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:26 pm

Sighclone wrote: If the ego was not real, was Eckhart's suffering for 29 years real? Oh, it was? And that was caused by identification with a false self created by what? By nothing?

Namaste, Andy
Andy you do know then that your ego loves this ego thread of going on and on and on to see who is right. This is how the ego gets invented by this very thing that is hppening right now in the now! Because at the end of the day it matters not if its called ego or just the mind what really matters is the awakening out of the illusion of the mind and the ego or mind would much rather play at something that is not getting you(meaning someone) any closer to the truth.
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:30 pm

Eek...exposed!!! Oh darn, DW, you weren't supposed to figure that out. Of course I'm wearing an egoic posture here. Jim was supposed to point that out, not you.. :) Oh well.... :mrgreen:

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:34 pm

Sighclone wrote:Eek...exposed!!! Oh darn, DW, you weren't supposed to figure that out. Of course I'm wearing an egoic posture here. Jim was supposed to point that out, not you.. :) Oh well.... :mrgreen:

Namaste, Andy
Well lets just rewind a bit!
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Fri Feb 13, 2009 9:38 pm

It's all good, Randji. :D

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by +Jim+ » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:46 pm

Sighclone wrote:Eckhart discovered that his ego (full of structure and content as discussed at length in ANE) created a "false self."
Look Andy, even your concepts of ego are muddled!
You've now created the idea of a 3rd level of identity
1 ego
2 false self created by ego
3 real self
This is what happens when you just relate through concepts - what can you find to be true when you actually look?
If the ego was not real, was Eckhart's suffering for 29 years real? Oh, it was? And that was caused by identification with a false self created by what? By nothing?
A false self created by a confusion as to what thought is.
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Sun Feb 15, 2009 8:08 pm

Jim...sorry, you are right. His definition is that the ego is a "false self created by unconscious identification with the mind." (PON p. 22). I got my words all mixed up. There are only two selves he found, the false self of the ego and Being.

Which is part of what is wrong with the mind. It gets things mixed up. Eckhart once said the more he speaks the more chance there is for error.

So, did I win yet?...did I win yet? Do we agree that there is an ego??? :)

Namaste, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by +Jim+ » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:29 pm

Sighclone wrote:Jim...sorry, you are right. His definition is that the ego is a "false self created by unconscious identification with the mind." (PON p. 22). I got my words all mixed up. There are only two selves he found, the false self of the ego and Being.
Not just your words Andy, your concepts were all mixed up too.
Is it still so unclear to you that concepts are totally barren?
Which is part of what is wrong with the mind. It gets things mixed up. Eckhart once said the more he speaks the more chance there is for error.
This is another example of ET's lack of clarity.
Insight can speak endlessly and not make mistakes - thought and memory on the other hand can get into all kinds of tangles.
Have you ever told a lie and then got the details of your story a little confused?
When you speak from truth there is no chance of error.
So, did I win yet?...did I win yet? Do we agree that there is an ego??? :)
A quick test for you....
A neighbour comes to tell you about a snake they saw in your garden. You go to investigate with them, but find instead that it's a piece of rubber piping.
Did the snake ever exist?
Intellectual understanding is totally inadequate for meeting daily life.
It's like attempting to nourish yourself on the memory of yesterday's lunch!


http://simplyenlightening.wordpress.com/about/

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by DWBH1953 » Mon Feb 16, 2009 4:07 pm

+Jim+ wrote:[
I hope you do not mind Jim I am keeping score.
So far your doing fine but Andy is closing in on you from the inside however he is still behind you a bit but gaining!
Peace
Randji
Do not meditate-be!
Do not think that you are-be!
Do not think about being-you are!
Sri Ramana

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Re: rain gods and egos

Post by Sighclone » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:18 pm

Jim, I'm sorry...but what concepts are mixed up?

All I'm saying is that, before enlightenment, the ego exists as a convenient term for our "sense of self" when we wake up in the morning. It's a collection of memories, habits and self-images that people have. We don't wake up and discover we are someone else. Also, you and I and ET are on the same page regarding the reality of that phantom. It is a "false self." Ego is just a word used to describe it.

Thanks, Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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