Eckhart Bashing - Bring It On

[Webwanderer]

Thanks jugu, I've really enjoyed this "rant" of yours and agree that your concerns are not without merrit. But I'm not sure you can put the genie back in the bottle - at least not entirely. And that may work to your long term advantage. There is an opportunity to live in some balance between the pure self interest of ego, and the more compassionate perspective of oneness. Ego run amuck can cause a lot of pain, to others and to ourselves. But mindless clarity can lead to that "dull potato" state that you pointed to. So while your choice to let go of the immersion into non-dual teachings may bring some adventure back to your life, the deeper knowing that your essence transcends any experience you may have can be a lifeline to creating more qualitative experiences. That is, a deeper sense of truth may soften the ego's judgments (about self as well as others) and offer a gentler path through life.

So crack some jokes, debate some politics and have a beer or two. Enjoy the ego approach to life, just remember that it is. Experiment. Rather than trying to kill off the ego, create one you can enjoy. Be an actor on the great stage of life. Play the role that you want, and do so with commitment. It doesn't have to be the wall flower that just stands and watches. You can dance to the beat of your choice. Clarity in life is important to the degree that it helps us to create better relationships. Have some fun, and don't screw it up with criticisms and "shoulds".

WW

[Sighclone]

jugu -

Thank you for your candor. Eckhart was very clear in stating that he wasn't ready for awakening to anything until he was 29-30. Until then, he was very egoic, and all this stuff he wrote later, and that we talk about here would not have been heard by him, or held much interest.

By all means respond to the energies that are there for you now. When I was in my 20s, I was also enraptured with Zen until I realized that I'd have to go to 'Zen Mountain' for a long time to become enlightened. Adyashanti had the advantage of parents and a spouse who totally supported his rather wild but consistent search. And he took 15 years.

I speak only for myself, but your comments are what I was hoping for here: firm disagreement from personal experience. Eckhart would be the last person to insist that his work has been presented to change everyone right now.

Be well, and stay in touch if you like,

Andy

[goldenbirdies]

and if you really are operating ego free why would you feel the need to change anything?

Good point, Jugu

David

[Onceler]

You know, as I was thinking about this thread and the content, I remembered reading PON originally. I remembered the feeling of simplicity and elemental intensity of the writing. I became very aware of the now and the present. I was pulled there by the writing so there was a visceral sense along with the intellectual act of reading. I wasn't thinking about enlightenment or the future or how long all this may take, or posting endlessly on an internet forum. I just remember looking up from the book, looking around at my present moment, my immediate environment, and being connected. There was a simultaneous thread that shot back into my past and hooked various experiences together into an meaningful whole as I read and pulled them into my present with one long sewing stroke.

I feel this has been somewhat lost for whatever reason. If none of us had the notion of enlightenment, how would this change things? Our experience?

[HermitLoon]

You are Eckhart Tolle...

I am Eckhart Tolle...

Tolle is Nisargadatta Maharaj and Maharaj Tolle...

and I am you and you are me.

Hearing and saying, reading and writing and thinking the words of One.

There is not two but One.

Peace

[Sighclone]

HL - thanks again...always our anchor (or should I say sky-hook ), always reminding us that words are ink on a page, or pixels on a screen, always taking us out of these very clear and graphic stylized dreams we tend to live.

Andy

[HermitLoon]

Namaste Andy

Time for some "awakened doing"!
The roof on the "hermitage" has mostly dissolved.
The metal for a new one has been provided (a big sale at Menards, one year no-interest financing, a raise in Social Security benefits, etc.)
The knowledge for applying it has been provided.
The body and mind are willing - a "Great Adventure" begins!

[OnthePath]

I just want to add a comment..
It's funny to watch my mind changing from one post to another:
Through reading the posts, my thoughts kept rushing in:" Yes, he is right: Tolle shouldn't charge people that much"; then: "That's a good point! He needs money to travel, to pay for different expenses.. What about the other masters, they charge money too".. then" ET is not after all that enlightened if he thinks about making money" and my mind went on and on....
All I can say is: thank you ET for enabling me to listen to other people's comments without judgement and more importantly to be able to watch my thoughts and letting them go.

[Sighclone]

And thanks OtP. It is the personal comments of progress or discovery that are the biggest blessings in this forum. It is so interesting to see how similar many of them are. We may be deluded into perceiving great differences among us for a while, but after much observation, the similarities begin to outweigh the differences...and in the end, there are no differences.

Andy

[OnthePath]

And thanks OtP. It is the personal comments of progress or discovery that are the biggest blessings in this forum. It is so interesting to see how similar many of them are. We may be deluded into perceiving great differences among us for a while, but after much observation, the similarities begin to outweigh the differences...and in the end, there are no differences.

Andy

Totally agree Sighclone

[James]

Jugu wrote:

Basically, I don't think truth should be honestly pursued until old age... Because everyones gonna die anyways right? and when you die you have no choice but to face the truth whatever it may be right? So if you as a "person" is so intent on achieving enlightenment, why not wait until just before you die? Isn't that really what the teachings imply? that it really dosn't matter when you do it? Lets face it, society doesn't really adapt well to blissheads like eckhart. I don't mean to seem harsh but thats exactly what this philosophy promises you, that you'll be walking around without a care in the world... well, the basic premise of any action is that you felt obligated to act correct? and if you really are operating ego free why would you feel the need to change anything?

I know where you are coming from Jugu, when I was in my 20's I went through several periods of rebellion and railing against Truth. I had some initial awakenings and glimpses of reality, but staying awake did not seem easy, so I became frustrated and disillusioned. What often happens is that we try to use Truth for personal gain or to improve our life, or we have expectations on how it should look; and that will always end in failure. Truth can't really be used. Furthermore we don't get to decide what truth is.

Webwanderer offered some very good suggestions, that would likely be helpful for someone your age. Eventually I am sure you will find yourself being gently drawn back to Truth. It will be more natural, gentle and comfortable, when you are not trying to grasp it, or make it do anything for you. It is inevitable that you discover what you are, you can never really escape or be separated from that.

james

[karmarider]

Tolle got me started on this, so I am always grateful for that. Tolle's message, at least in the PON, was simple and straightforward. Tolle's awakening was spontaneous; what he communicates effectively is an understanding of the mind (the ego, pain-body, etc), because his life was full of pain, and he communicates what it means to be awakened (present, accepting, conscious). On how to get "there" I've found some other sources more helpful, such as the Sedona method, Nisgardatta, Mahirishi and others. It would valid to say that he does make a lot of money and that can bother some; it is also valid to ask whether there is anything wrong with making money. I'm not sure if he's appearance on Oprah was helpful. The message does go out to millions, but it also then becomes a message. Wouldn't be surprised if in a few years there are Tollists and Tollism.

[Sighclone]

Tollists and Tollism

Eeeek. Nah, we are pretty rugged here - going on five years. We will slap those people into next week if they emerge with any following . While nonduality has been around for millenia, (see "The Perennial Philosophy," Aldous Huxley, 1944), there have been many expressions of it, and there are subtle distinctions between Advaita Vedanta and Dzogchen Buddhism for example. And distinctions between the style and phrasing of Eckhart Tolle, Balsekar, Byron Katie, Scott Kiloby and Nisargadatta. But they are distinctions without a difference at the basic level, and none of them rise (or fall) to the level of a religion. I don't remember Eckhart asking me to believe anything I could not experience directly.

Andy

[Soul Seeker]

Hi Hermitloon - had to chuckle about your roof - the core paradox - everything is perfect as it is but if the roof leaks fix it

[HermitLoon]

It's supposed to leak - and I have been conditioned to want to re-direct the leaks to the grass