Rebelling the Babylon System

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lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:05 am

sevenworlds wrote:I told you in the Bob Marley thread I was on no kind of mission here, and yet you still think I have an agenda.
David, with no disrespect, you wouldn't be here on this forum if you didn't have some sort of agenda. Maybe your agenda is to learn something or maybe it is to share something, nonetheless it still an ageda. ET said that he did not have an agenda when he spent those two years sitting on a park bench. People came to him, he felt no need to go out into the world with his message at that time. UGK, who also claimed he had no agenda, did not seek people out to share his world view, the people came to him. Your very presence here is evidence that, like for many of us, the seeking energy is there, very subtle perhaps, but still there...yes I know, this is what it seems like from the outside and that you are like water moving around obstacles etc. But the water does not need to remind itself and others that it is water moving around obstacles, it is what it is and it knows what it is.

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:15 am

It's fine with me. All I can say is the search is finished in me. I don't come on this forum or the Icke one to learn about spirituality, make friends or for any mission. If that defines me by your standards as having a "messiah complex" that's alright.

Ok, regarding Icke first. You've jumped headlong into the reptilian thing, as most people do with Icke. His basic premise is that a handful of manipulators are shaping events in the world for their own agenda and enslaving the rest of us in the process. For us to know our true nature would be very dangerous for them so the world has been set-up over centuries to keep us as "left-brain prisoners", as he puts it. The left-brain thing regards logical, rational thinking as opposed to right-brain, which deals with spontaneity, creativity and our true nature. Jill-Bolte Taylor, who was mentioned in the Oprah webcasts, also deals with this model.

Whereas most conspiracy researchers believe it to be a banking elite who are in overall control, Icke has come to the conclusion there are other entities (reptilians) who are behind it, and that they are able to access this world by 'shape-shifting' into human form. They cannot do this to just anyone, only certain inter-breeding bloodlines, who have been 'bred' since ancient times for this purpose. That's where Babylon comes in. If you follow this theory, the bloodlines can be traced back to that ancient region. This also relates to why the West (predominantly the US and UK) seem to have a fascination with war in the Middle East. This region seems to be important to them and the wars are hiding something more profound. There's much more to it than this but you can find out for yourself if you wish.

As I said, the term Babylon System, is a Rastafarian term which could be loosely described as meaning the Western system of society. Why Babylon is in there again I don't know but maybe the African ancient cultures that Rasta sprung from knew a similar version of history to what Icke has been investigating. The Rastas also saw the way the system had corrupted and brainwashed our minds to do their best to prevent us from realising our true nature.

None of that is important - especially not the reptilian part - because it's all theory, no more or less believable than any other version of history. If it is valid, it is still all happening in the field of consciousness and is being allowed to happen. It is also being allowed to happen that we can remedy it. Whether you want to see this whole play in Eastern theories or these theories makes little difference. I am not interested in the details because they are all ultimately false but to bring people to that point we have nothing else but theories. Why should we stick with the Eastern ways when they have little relevance to the way we live in the West?

People over here who won't listen to 'spiritual nonsense' may just take notice if you point out to them the way their culture brainwashes and conditions them. From the politicians who are always promising 'hope' and 'change' to the education system, which is squeezing us into "left-brain thinking" so we go on and become the next generation of repeaters and serve and maintain the status quo. All of that 'out there' is 'you'. Traditional spiritual teachings encourage us to go 'within' but many can miss all the ways they are daily conditioned by their society. 'You' are the society. When enough 'you's' go, the society must go. How do you get enough 'you's' to go? By bringing this to their attention. That was what N. Maharaj was trying to point out.

I used the title "Rebelling the Babylon System" to make a connection between Bob Marley's song "Babylon System", which I'd posted in that thread, and point to what he was singing about and how it is essentially the same message as this. Eckhart himself hints at a lot of this if you really look at what he's saying. There are many ways of pointing people to their true nature. This is just another. If you can see something in it, it's done it's job. If it makes no sense to you why should you care? If you are so sure your way is right for you and your search is finished then this thread would be nothing to get your knickers in a twist over.
Last edited by sevenworlds on Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:35 am, edited 2 times in total.

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:32 am

lucy wrote:David, with no disrespect, you wouldn't be here on this forum if you didn't have some sort of agenda. Maybe your agenda is to learn something or maybe it is to share something, nonetheless it still an ageda. ET said that he did not have an agenda when he spent those two years sitting on a park bench. People came to him, he felt no need to go out into the world with his message at that time. UGK, who also claimed he had no agenda, did not seek people out to share his world view, the people came to him. Your very presence here is evidence that, like for many of us, the seeking energy is there, very subtle perhaps, but still there...yes I know, this is what it seems like from the outside and that you are like water moving around obstacles etc. But the water does not need to remind itself and others that it is water moving around obstacles, it is what it is and it knows what it is.
It is fine by me if you wish to believe that. If you want to fall into the trap of believing I should be sitting in some cave or park bench waiting for the world to find me, that's ok. You would be surprised to learn that UG did not wait for people to come to him. He spent a year on his own after his "calamity" while he made 'sense' of what had happened and then he said one day he realised how he would express this, that, in his words, he would "tell it like it is". From then on, he spoke almost all day, every day for nearly 30 years.

I could also point you in the direction of a post on another forum by a woman who claims to have known and been friends with Eckhart since 1993. Obviously, we don't know for sure, but by her account it seems plausible. She gives another side to the story that everything just somehow fell into place for him. I know why teachers like to give that impression but that is one of the last beliefs to let go.

We are not living in ancient India. I was living in this environment, using computers and the internet before all this happened to me. Ramana was known to read comic books, UG watched a lot of television. I spend a lot of time on the internet because this is the culture I've been born into. It's very natural that given my current circumstances, where I have an outlet for creative expression right in front of me, I happen to use it.

James
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by James » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:39 am

Thank You 7W for taking the time to explain more.

You said:
Whereas most conspiracy researchers believe it to be a banking elite who are in overall control, Icke has come to the conclusion there are other entities (reptilians) who are behind it, and that they are able to access this world by 'shape-shifting' into human form.
This sounds like science fiction to me.

It is a good one to inquire into: Is it true? Do I know for sure that reptiles shape shift into humans. How does it feel when I believe that? Who or What would I be without that thought/belief.

james
Last edited by James on Mon Apr 13, 2009 10:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Fri Apr 03, 2009 3:44 am

The Icke stuff coincidentally fell into my lap at a certain time. I was intrigued by it for a short time but it doesn't really matter. I have no way of knowing whether any of it is true unless it directly becomes part of my experience. Even then, everything that comes and goes is illusion anyway. So I don't rule it out and I don't carry it as a belief.

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Fri Apr 03, 2009 4:05 am

sevenworlds wrote:It is fine by me if you wish to believe that. If you want to fall into the trap of believing I should be sitting in some cave or park bench waiting for the world to find me, that's ok.
Yes and it's fine with me if you want to believe that's what I meant.

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Fri Apr 03, 2009 2:35 pm

Lucy, what do you expect me to say? You seem to be implying that because I am here something is wrong. I don't mind that in itself but I am only trying to point out to you that the only way you can come to that conclusion is by comparing me to others who you feel are self-realised. They are all liars. Every single one of them. They make these statements and some of their statements have an impact on you and you think you are getting somewhere but you haven't noticed that their other statements have got in the backdoor and built up new barriers. Replacing one belief with another.

UG would appear on tv interviews and joke about how it was absurd that he was there giving an interview because he has nothing to say. Well, what the hell is he doing there then? When you watch his video clips, you get the impression it was others around him who wanted to film him, because he often asks them why they are recording. I read the diary/blog of the woman who travelled with him and filmed most of those videos. She said it was his idea. She was a photographer and he encouraged her to buy a video camera and film his talks as they travelled.

You might be interested to read this account of Eckhart. Scroll down to Wanderer77's post: http://forum.rickross.com/read.php?6,54633,page=11

You can believe what you like but I am only trying to point out what a joke this all is. If this ever really hits you and finishes you off, you will find it laughable that you spent so much time invested in all these books and talks, that you went through so much struggle in your life, just to end up like this. It's so incredibly simple. You don't want to accept how simple it is because you've built up this reliance on various teachers and methods. To make that last jump you have to go all alone, completely into the Unknown. You will never what you are left with. Yes, you may end up very quiet and gentle but you can't be sure of that. Believe it or not, I used to be incredibly shy. A remnant of that is still there. I find it laughable and amazing how these words seem to be coming out of this shy, ordinary guy.

sevenworlds
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by sevenworlds » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:16 pm

He doesn't really go into the reptilian thing here, but if anyone is interested in hearing straight from the horses mouth what he's currently about, here is a recent interview from February with David Icke: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid ... 6819918394

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Sighclone » Fri Apr 03, 2009 5:54 pm

dw -

Jeepers. (That's a horrid little yank word, I think. :) )

First - thanks for the link to the long post re ET's ego, by an old friend. I found myself strangely unmoved. I was not moved despite the fact that her judgement about his ego may be valid. I did agree with ther that PON is a very special book, and, for me, more helpful than ANE. I guess I'm just very selfish when it comes to spirituality. (This said despite all my encouragements to others in this forum.) I care about them and the forum, but I also want to learn as much deep experiential truth as I can. Little self, Big Self, little me, Big Mind or whatever...I want to learn and experience...and be. So where Eckhart goes and what he does is secondary. What he writes and says in his seminars (which the poster admired, too) is meaningful only insofar as it resonates for me! I think most of his fans here would agree that we are here because he has made a difference for us. The other comments on that lengthy cult blog were also interesting.

2) I've just started the David Icke interview - more later...compelling and candid speaker, though...

Thanks again.

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Fri Apr 03, 2009 8:44 pm

sevenworlds wrote:Lucy, what do you expect me to say? You seem to be implying that because I am here something is wrong. I don't mind that in itself but I am only trying to point out to you that the only way you can come to that conclusion is by comparing me to others who you feel are self-realised. They are all liars. Every single one of them.

We are all consciousness. You make assumptions about people (they are all liars you say) and yet when other people make assumptions about you, you chasitise them and point out how they arrived at that conclusion by comparing you to others. Well how did you arrive at the conclusion that "they are liars"?, was it not by comparing them to those who you think are telling the truth? Or comparing it to a truth that you know to be true inside?
sevenworlds wrote:They make these statements and some of their statements have an impact on you and you think you are getting somewhere but you haven't noticed that their other statements have got in the backdoor and built up new barriers. Replacing one belief with another.
Again, you make assumptions about my level of consciousness. What makes you so sure that the same immunity that you have to other people's statements cannot be operating here or for others on the forum? And what makes your motivation to communicate this any purer than those people who you are referring to as liars?
sevenworlds wrote:You can believe what you like but I am only trying to point out what a joke this all is. If this ever really hits you and finishes you off, you will find it laughable that you spent so much time invested in all these books and talks, that you went through so much struggle in your life, just to end up like this. It's so incredibly simple. You don't want to accept how simple it is because you've built up this reliance on various teachers and methods.
Again, more assumptions. You say you operate beyond beliefs, but in my experience assumptions are based on beliefs. And weather you want to admit it or not, you are here illuminating or teaching or whatever you want to call it, the only differnce between you and the very teachers you criticize is that they are writing books and seminars and you are posting on a forum.

Thank you for that woman's account on Eckhart. I don't hold ET up in any regard, I follow his advice that all teachers will eventually fail you.

And thank you for that link of David Icke. Fascinating. I thought I was only going to watch a few minutes of it, but I ended up watching the full two hours. I resonnate with a lot of what he say (minus the reptillian thing), but to me he is saying exactly what other teachers are saying. We are all consciouness, we need to wake-up to this if want to change the world we live on and if the human race is going to continue. ET says the same thing in the beginning of ANE, only her refers to it as flowering of consciousness.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by letitgo » Sat Apr 04, 2009 12:15 am

Q: When I meet a European with some education and talk to him about a Guru and his teachings, his reaction is: ‘the man must be mad to teach such nonsense’. What am I to tell him?

M: Take him to himself. Show him, how little he knows himself, how he takes the most absurd statements about himself for holy truth. He is told that he is the body, was born, will die, has parents, duties, learns to like what others like and fear what others fear. Totally a creature of heredity and society, he lives by memory and acts by habits. Ignorant of himself and his true interests, he pursues false aims and is always frustrated. His life and death are meaningless and painful, and there seems to be no way out. Then tell him, there is a way out within his easy reach, not a conversion to another set of ideas, but a liberation from all ideas and patterns of living. Don’t tell him about Gurus and disciples -- this way of thinking is not for him. His is an inner path, he is moved by an inner urge and guided by an inner light. Invite him to rebel and he will respond. Do not try to impress on him that so-and-so is a realised man and can be accepted as a Guru. As long as he does not trust himself, he cannot trust another. And confidence will come with experience.
Since this seems to be the basis for the rebellious tone of this thread, I would like to offer another opinion with regard to it’s meaning…

This response is a remarkably witty and insightful way to deal with a “Westerner”, which carries the basic stigma of the illusions to which we all were born - families, duties, heredity, society, religion, etc. We all were raised into certain belief systems - or created our own belief systems - which we had to release in order to find the peace of presence and the end of fear which all our “Western” constructs created. But his emphasis on rebellion is to offer a carrot to a person not willing to change beliefs or to even follow a leader, but a person perfectly willing to rebel… against almost anything!

“Don’t tell him about Gurus and disciples - this way of thinking is not for him” and “As long as he does not trust himself, he cannot trust another.” These two sentences point to a very effective, yet sneaky way to cause someone lost in their own dream, how to begin to question everything. A completely obvious and necessary goal for a Guru used to dealing with flocks of “Easterner’s” at his feet simply looking for enlightenment.

This is the rebellion he is talking about. A rebellion against your own beliefs. He seems to answer the question with obvious poignancy, and in no way is inciting to riot.

Norm
To the world you may be one person, but to one person you may be the world.

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:10 am

letitgo wrote:This is the rebellion he is talking about. A rebellion against your own beliefs. He seems to answer the question with obvious poignancy, and in no way is inciting to riot.
I agree with you Norm. I don't think he(Nis Mahraj) is encouraging a riot or anarchy. Those are institutions of thought, which he denounces. I think you are quite right, he is referring to dismantling all belief systems.

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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by Juniper22 » Sat Apr 04, 2009 1:59 am

Very good interview with Icke Sevenworlds, I didn`t know PC had interviewed him.

I feel Icke hit the nail on the head about human consciousness and what is happening at present. In relation to the whole reptilian aspect which he briefly mentions here, I don`t believe in it and I don`t not believe in it. I don`t know what a human being is so I`m not going to say I know what a reptilian or any other life form is. Mainstream science states that of what we now know exists, we perceive only 10% through our five senses. My question is if we sense only 10% of what we`ve discovered through these five senses, then how much of reality do we actually perceive? It`s obviously infinitesimally small.

If there is a reptilian element pulling the strings from a lower fourth dimension, they wouldn`t want the masses to be aware of them, otherwise the game would be up. I`ve noticed over the years slight pointers towards what Icke has spoken of within royal bloodlines. We`ve all heard the story (when we were younger) of the princess who kisses the frog (reptilian) which turns into a handsome prince (shapeshifting). Then there is Bram Stokers "Dracula." Alpha Draconis is supposedly the star system where these reptilians originate from. I`m living in Dublin Ireland, literally just around the corner from where Stoker wrote his novel - some time ago I looked into his background. It`s interesting to note he was a Freemason and member of Aleister Crowleys magickal circle "The Golden Dawn." In the above interview with Icke, Bill Ryan hinted at black rituals, human sacrifices and blood drinking which supposedly goes on within the upper echelons of the Illuminati. Stoker must have known/heard about this if he was part of such a dark group of black occultists fronted by the notorious Crowley (inspration to early mainstream rock n`roll). Note also how Dracula was not depicted as an ordinary man, but a Count - a man of standing/privilege/royal bloodline.

Below is the beginning of an insightful interview with Icke and an old African Shaman, Credo Mutwa, who describes his beliefs and experiences of the "Chitauri," or Serpent Men of Africa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bf0o4TkoObo
"Don`t think of goodness; don`t think of evil; at this instant, what is your original face?" Hui Neng

James
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by James » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:02 pm

Some of these new age conspiracy theories, (conspiratuality), are certainly interesting and entertaining; and everyone is entitled to believe or think what they want. Although there may be some semblance of truth in these theories, in my view they are largely driven by fear. Fear hits the spinning mind and produces fantasies and imaginations of what might be true, rather than what we know to be true. What one believes then is what will be seen in the world. One will see what they believe, and believe what they see. That is not reality, just a different version of dreaming.

Lay down all dreaming and awaken to the truth of Being, which is beyond belief.

james
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

lucy
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Re: Rebelling the Babylon System

Post by lucy » Sat Apr 04, 2009 6:43 pm

Hi James,

I think you are right when you say that most new age conspiracy therories are largely driven by fear, but I think the point that David Icke is trying to get across is that
we have lost the ability to tune into or true nature because we are constantly being bombarded with beliefs, propaganda and fear to keep us fixated in the mind. (very Orwellian)
I think that is a very useful place to start examining why we believe what we believe. Weather one wants to believe that this is being orchestrated by an elite few with reptillian blood lines is
another story, but one cannot deny the fact that there are definite "controls" in place to keep the masses ignorant. Weather these "controls" are random events or weather they are orchestrated doesn't really matter in my opinion, but it may help others to see the Truth if they believe something is amiss in the dream.

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