Questions, questions, questions........

This is the place to post whatever questions you have related to the teachings of Eckhart Tolle. The rest of us will do whatever we can to help you achieve a better understanding :)
Ralph
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Questions, questions, questions........

Post by Ralph » Wed Aug 11, 2010 5:38 am

The answer to all our questions about this subject of spirituality, our true nature, Advaita, non duality, etc... can be found at the 2 minute mark of this clip.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1UuaOye9 ... re=related

:D

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Sighclone
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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by Sighclone » Wed Aug 11, 2010 6:57 am

Indeed.... :mrgreen:

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by kiki » Wed Aug 11, 2010 3:23 pm

Absolutely brilliant - throw away all the Vedas, all the satsangs, books, tapes, and fancy talk.

I am reminded of when I was a kid and started laughing in church; it was impossible to suppress it successfully, though I tried very hard to do so. The laughter went on and on because the contrast between such a supposedly "holy" place and what I was feeling was so striking. That was probably the most enlightened moment I ever had in church and I didn't even know what it was.
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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by runstrails » Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:41 pm

Total classic! That video speaks for a thousand (unnecessary)words! Thanks for sharing.

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by hanss » Thu Aug 12, 2010 9:30 am

Wonderful :D Thank you for the link.
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
(Eckhart Tolle)

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by spikyface » Thu Aug 12, 2010 10:02 pm

Talking to a colleague at work today I said "As the list of things to do piles up higher and higher, I tend to lose my sense of humour"

He said "Surely it should be the other way round?"

He's right y'know, when asked to do the impossible, the best answer is to laugh
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by karmarider » Fri Aug 13, 2010 5:57 am

Hilarious...and contagious! You can almost feel the moment when they were staring at each other and they both decided to drop the bullshit. Thanks for sharing...

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by Sighclone » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:11 am

I almost hate to say this, but if I'm not mistaken, about five seconds before the laughter begins, I believe someone farted...listen again... :mrgreen:

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by spikyface » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:18 am

If you mean the sound in the background at 1:52 it's not a fart but a table or something being scraped along the floor, it's some kind of activity going on in the background
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by Sighclone » Fri Aug 13, 2010 8:54 pm

I do choose to believe that is correct (the table, etc.)... :)

Andy
A person is not a thing or a process, but an opening through which the universe manifests. - Martin Heidegger
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce

Ralph
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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by Ralph » Sat Aug 14, 2010 12:10 am

.... to end the questions, end the questioner.

Please have a listen to part 2 , Jeff does a great job in speaking about the unspeakable.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yeOhJ8-a ... re=related

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by spikyface » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:14 am

He uses a lot of words, the crux of what he is saying is this:
Questions are expressions of the assumptions you already have
It's all asked from a mind-identified point of view

That's like trying to find your way somewhere with your face buried in a map, never looking up to observe the world around you
Do not take anyone as an authority on what you are. Ultimately all the answers lie within

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by great2be » Sat Aug 14, 2010 9:49 am

spikyface wrote:He uses a lot of words, the crux of what he is saying is this:
Questions are expressions of the assumptions you already have
It's all asked from a mind-identified point of view

That's like trying to find your way somewhere with your face buried in a map, never looking up to observe the world around you
that's a fantastic analogy spikyface

just try this one
It's like trying to navigate in the real world whilst relying on a map of Narnia
An imaginary seeker, seeking an imaginary goal.
Realise the nature of imagination and the fallacious effort ends.

Have you ever seen a dog chasing it's tail?

What happens when the dog runs faster?

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by James » Sat Aug 14, 2010 5:44 pm

That's really funny Ralph, thanks. It reminds me of some of Papaji's satsangs, he had a tendency towards humor and uncontrollable laughter. One of the videos I watched, a young man begins laughing uncontrollably, and Papaji asks him to come up and sit next to him on the pillow. He puts his hands on him and says "this is what understanding looks like". The young man continues to laugh on and off for probably thirty minutes or so, and rolls around on the floor while other people are dialoging with Papaji. It was really fun to watch. I had that experience once in a meditation circle, it was like a release of pent up seriousness and tension; and yes it is enlightening. I was laughing intensely for several minutes and was asked by the instructor if I would like to leave the room. So I can relate to Kiki's experience in church.

Although I would posit the statement "if all there was to enlightenment was laughter and humor, most of the world would be awake." All we would need to do is listen to George Carlin or Andrew Dice Clay or whatever makes one laugh. Often humor is used as an escape or mask, to avoid the deeper existential pain born of the sense of separation. I like the zen quote Jeff uses though, paraphrasing: after realization of what has always been, all that remains is the laughter. Of course even that is a concept or pointer not a literal statement of fact. There is obviously much more to the life experience than just laughter.

On a more serious note: So what they are suggesting in the video is that perhaps the most important question we can ask is: Who is asking the question? Where does the question arise from? The dissolution of the questioner ends the questions. The questioning does perpetuate the apparent reality of the questioner. On the other hand not to make that into another rigid concept, some questions are helpful along the way. Certain types of questions are more helpful than others. We need to be watchful that we are not trying to do an end run as in: "I know I should not have any questions, therefore I won't ask any", that may just be a recipe for continued ignorance. A skilled spiritual teacher or guide can address questions, and help point one in the needed direction.

As much as I enjoy Jeff's message, I've listened to several hours of his talks; sorry to be a contrarian, I do have some disagreement with what he says. First I'll say I especially like the way he debunks concepts of spirituality, such as when talks about the "religion of emptiness", when people walk around saying nothing exists, there is no one here, no doer etc. As Foster says they have taken on the pointers/concepts as a new belief or religion. They are not actually experiencing what the pointers point to, that is still being stuck in concept land. I think we all have done that or do that from time to time, I certainly have and continue to watch for it.

My disagreement though with his message has to do with seeking and searching. While Jeff was an intense spiritual seeker for years prior to his awakening, he sometimes says that it had little or nothing to do with his awakening. And I don't doubt that he feels that way. I occasionally have a spontaneous realization that nothing ever happened, that it appeared to happen within the context of a dream. So that may be what he is referring to. But his friend Scott Kiloby who has interviewed him numerous times (free to listen to or download on his kilologues at kiloby.com), has suggested the question: how can one be sure that the spiritual seeking had nothing to do with the awakening? Does not every life experience including seeking or not seeking lead up to that awakening, the realization of what has already been?

Now I partially understand where Jeff is coming from, he is throwing out the old model of enlightenment as something that can be gained through acquiring or seeking, hard work or study; that's been a big stumbling block for many throughout the ages. Yes agreed that's a concept. However the other alternative sounds a bit like he suggests that there is nothing to do, other than realize that there is nothing to do (more or less), because there is no one there to do it (meaning the concept of "I"), thus a minimalist approach, and that may be where he is at, his current experience of truth. And even that can be made into yet another concept, and I'm sure Jeff would agree. But my intuition suggests, the truth, at least for me, is in the middle of these two extremes, the middle path.

Some amount of seeking is not wrong, and is inevitable as long as we think and feel we are a separate entity. And if seeking is done intelligently, as in inquiring into the one that is always seeking, it can be a direct path to liberation; a "pathless path" for those who have trouble with the word path or process. I'm reminded once again of the Zen saying "always being, always becoming", which represents that paradox. The sense I have is that some teachings don't delve deep enough into the ultimate reality, at least not deep enough for me, I feel they sometimes only scratch the surface of reality. While I can't speak for others, Self Realization is a gradual process which I find to be very enjoyable, and at times challenging, it has not been immediate; although it may consist of many moments of instant realization or enlightenment of what always, already is, within this ongoing process of Self Realization. It is an ever deepening, enriching experience of the mystery.

If others are happy with the just stop seeking and realize what always is, you are already it, and have a good belly laugh approach, that's great. Whatever makes them happy. The question is: Is one truly satisfied? If the answer is "yes, or at least for now I am satisfied," then "call of the search" as Papaji liked to say. But if the answer is "well partially satisfied, but I sense there is more to life than this, more to realize or discover," then keep going, don't stop the search prematurely... That's how I see it.
"Awareness is already present, already here, already now; before you try to be more.... In that recognition there's no effort, there's just acknowledgment"..."Awareness is not something you can understand, it's something you are."

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Re: Questions, questions, questions........

Post by Ralph » Sat Aug 14, 2010 8:36 pm

Well said James.

A great teacher is one who meets the seeker where he/she is and speaks from there. Few teachers do this. Yes, it all comes down to full stop! and there is nothing to get but in my case it took many many years to get to this point and I still struggle at times. It appears that for most of us, we need to use effort to see that effort is what stands in the way of true seeing. As Nisargadatta once said, the fruit falls suddenly but the ripening takes time.

Now what is most inportant is to be totally honest and sincere with oneself and that will lead you the way . This is all that is required .

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