The Law of Confusion- an essay

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby hanss » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:50 am

Sighclone wrote: My point was that it is not testable...
I think affirmations has been proven to be effective in scientific tests but I will not dig proof. Sportsmen/women at high level use a variant of LOA all the time. I agree with what your are saying, but I'm personally not very found of science proof if they not fit with my experience :) Even if there was no evidence that the sun was shining today, I would still see the sun. Ok, its' not a law and it can not be tested.

Et says to stick with the inner body for a period of time and watch what happens. Let us say that Ms Y does that daily for 5 months. After five months, her anxiety has reduced very much, she often feels peace and happiness, her whole life has changed. Is that proof? No. Is awareness of the inner body testable? I have worked as a testing engineer for a couple of years and I benefit from that now in Spirituality. Sounds strange uh? One of the things I found was that the testing itself was the important thing, not the result. From the actual testing, the understanding, experiences and development came, not the analysis and theoritcal discussions before it started. Comparison - instead of anaylzing and judging the spiritual pointers, trying them out is better I think. So, even if LOA is not testable, I'm going to test it. A serious methodical testing over a long period of time. I'm sure something good will come out of it. I have nothing to loose and everything to win. If I also get a new Mercedes at the same time, I will accept that :)
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Sighclone » Wed Jun 29, 2011 5:48 pm

hanss -

Always a pleasure to hear from you. Certainly empirical evidence, even absent understanding of the mechanism is valid. Penicillin and aspirin "worked" even before we understood the chemistry. But some kind of mystical link between what "my thoughts" are (grinding and obsessing as I must to be a true LoA devotee) and the arrival of a Mercedes from nowhere is very hard to swallow. I'd rather work hard to earn the money to buy it.

Fundamentally, this is a forum about awakening, not "getting stuff." That said, can I use the LoA to achieve Self-realization? Well, the Dalai Lama, in the PBS movie "The Buddha" said briefly that desire to become enlightened is a good thing. So maybe the conscious seeking itself somehow, solely from its own energy or whatever, produces that event? I guess I'd rather think it encourages study, meditation and self-inquiry, which most teachers agree lead to awakening eventually.

Andy
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There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby karmarider » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:17 pm

hanss wrote:
Sighclone wrote: My point was that it is not testable...
I think affirmations has been proven to be effective in scientific tests but I will not dig proof. Sportsmen/women at high level use a variant of LOA all the time. I agree with what your are saying, but I'm personally not very found of science proof if they not fit with my experience :) Even if there was no evidence that the sun was shining today, I would still see the sun. Ok, its' not a law and it can not be tested. ...


There's no question there is something to intention-manifestation. We all have experience with it. There are times when we're intense about a particular goal and we're alert to everything that supports it and we can leverage this. I have had personal experience with flow--when everything unfolds in the way I want, and what I want is what unfolds. We all have experience with in a negative way too--when we're attached to the cluttered mind, we attract a life of discontent.

Jed Mckenna points it out. It's in Patanjali's Yoga Sutra. And I'm sure we can find some kind of confirmation of it in many scriptures.

The trouble is that beliefs are self-confirming. If I look at life with a belief in karma, I'm sure I'll find confirmation of it all over the place.

If the goal is to be the truth of existence, I don't see how any particular hypothesis can be helpful. If the goal is to cut away delusions, I don't see how it can be helpful to attach to particular theories. Whether the theories are the LOA, or karma, astrology, Freudian psychology, or even non-dual theories with particular terminology and viewpoints--testable or not, I see the attachment to them as obstacles.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby hanss » Wed Jun 29, 2011 7:54 pm

Sighclone wrote:But some kind of mystical link between what "my thoughts" are (grinding and obsessing as I must to be a true LoA devotee) and the arrival of a Mercedes from nowhere is very hard to swallow. I'd rather work hard to earn the money to buy it.


I think we have very different views on LOA. It is probably my fault, my spiritual conditioning and viewing with colored glasses on 8) I have not been in to "The Secret". Well, I have a couple of years ago but I throw it away. But what the Hicks are saying is very close to Non-duality and similar imo. The thoughts should be used to come closer to the Source and away from complaining and negativity, sort of tricking the body and mind in to a higher level of vibration (gratitude and so on). Actually they recomend mediation to get in touch with who you really are. They talk about inner being and alignment with Source. As atumn has already pointed out so well, acceptance is essential. What differs a little I think is that desires should be fulfilled and makes the world go round. The Source is creating thru us and we should enjoy it. We draw ourselves away instead of tuning in with the flow of life and joyful creating.

From the book Ask and it is given :
Your true knowledge comes from your own life experience. And while you will be a constant gatherer of experience and knowledge, your life is not only about that—it is about fulfillment, satisfaction, and joy. Your life is about the continuing expression of who you truly are.


There will be no Mercedes just because me or you just think about it. But there are two ways to get it. 1. From a negative state with low energy "I will get one, damn it", with struggle and hard work. 2. From a state of positive thinking and high energy, alignment with the flow of life and having fun. Just playing, I think I will get the car in 5-10 years with option 1 and in 15-20 years with option 2. Option 2 will also get me very tired of life and take time from training, movies, women, nature visits and other things that the Source would like to experience thru me :)

Sighclone wrote:That said, can I use the LoA to achieve Self-realization? Well, the Dalai Lama, in the PBS movie "The Buddha" said briefly that desire to become enlightened is a good thing.
I don't know. But I remember that Adya said something about it. "Ask the universe in a very honest sincere way for awakening and you will get it" or something similar.
Last edited by hanss on Wed Jun 29, 2011 9:05 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby hanss » Wed Jun 29, 2011 8:10 pm

karmarider wrote:I see the attachment to them as obstacles.
Probably they are. But probably all our attachments will fall sooner or later, on our path that is not a path. This too shall pass. Mine have fallen one by one in various areas, so Little Me must gather new ones all the time :) For me personally, I think the biggest obstacle is the interest in spiritual stuff. Anything to avoid the void. Anyhow, I must fix things in my practical life and I will try the LOA approach, I like the positive feeling in it and it must be better than to sit in a Lotus position and wait. Chop wood, carry water.
"In today's rush we all think too much, seek too much, want too much and forget about the joy of just Being."
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby erict » Wed Jun 29, 2011 10:27 pm

Sighclone wrote:Fundamentally, this is a forum about awakening, not "getting stuff."

This is a big misconception of what these LoA teachings are really about. Maybe it's Rhonda's fault. But if you listen to the teachings of Abraham, they talk about de-emphasizing the clinging to the arrival of any particular manifestations. Instead it is about getting your mind, body and spirit/soul/inner being into alignment, getting into the flow. This isn't about attracting a bigger house or a faster car. It's about getting into the flow of your own life, getting on track and stopping all the things we do that make this such a struggle. In this flow, it is the path of our life's purpose and all the things we truly want - having much more to do with states of being than physical objects and circumstances (and definitely not some juvenile, egoic desires of what we think we want), come much more easily into our lives.

Sighclone wrote:But some kind of mystical link between what "my thoughts" are (grinding and obsessing as I must to be a true LoA devotee) and the arrival of a Mercedes from nowhere is very hard to swallow. I'd rather work hard to earn the money to buy it.

In the context of the car, if one truly had a genuine desire for such a thing and pursued it, then the LoA teachings suggest instead of relying solely on action, first aligning yourself, then following a path that does not go against the current of your life, does not require pushing so hard and struggling so much, in an attempt to compensate the lack of alignment through action alone. Action, what we do with our bodies, is only one aspect of who we are. We are so much more than a body, even more than just a body with a mind.

I'm sure anyone who is an artist, painting or writing, knows this well. The times of inspiration, of flow, even if you do quite a bit of physical action, let's say writing a book, where you are in the flow, however much actual physical action it is that you need to accomplish, it isn't a struggle, it's not hard work. The struggle is not about the amount or difficulty of the action, but about your inner alignment with what you are doing.

So if we stick with the example of the car, if you first get into alignment about it, then you will be inspired to the action you need to take, and the quality of action will be much different. Struggle and hard work normally only lead to more of the same.

So as in art, as in sports, so it can be in living life, and that is what these teachings are about - living our lives like Michael Jordon played the game.
"Be sincere; don't ask questions out of mere interest. Ask dangerous questions—the ones whose answers could change your life."
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby heidi » Wed Jun 29, 2011 11:15 pm

Well said, young man! :D
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Rick » Thu Jun 30, 2011 12:35 am

To some the LoA IS positive thinking. It is the thinking, egoic mind trying to conjure up its hearts desires and cravings with positive thoughts of the kind that is kin to hypnotic suggestion. "I will be a millionaire, I will be a millionaire, I will be a millionaire..." Unless you have egoic ambition to go with those positive thoughts, nothing is going to happen, and if it does happen it will be by willful ambition or by chance, and even then the element of happiness will always be missing and there will be no end to wanting more.

To others the LoA is the result of living in the moment as Source. And as Source you will be able to do whatever is right and proper for that moment. If the moment requires you to turn water into wine or three loafs of bread and two fish into enough to feed a multitude, or having the right words to say to a broken soul, the means and ability will be available in that moment.

Have I missed anything?
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Re: The Law of Confusion- an essay

Postby Sighclone » Thu Jun 30, 2011 11:14 pm

Thanks everyone for your thoughtful responses! I'm still skeptical about this one, and tend to align more with Ananda, but I do hear your points. I think I'll move my other comments to the parallel thread here: viewtopic.php?f=46&t=8997 .

Andy
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