LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Fri Jul 06, 2012 9:48 pm

The following is an interesting description of LoA in snippets from several unique 'Channels' - sans Abraham.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdmC2Vj_IEY&feature=plcp

It would seem that the message is consistent regardless of 'Source'.

Enjoy.

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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Fri Jul 06, 2012 11:47 pm

This sounds like complete rubbish to me. These people are just talking like they are in a dream.

They make no attempt to explain why you should use this technique and how it resolves man's search. And how it is different from just wanting a lot of things. Like an addict in a casino, desiring this and that ... and more and more.

What are they selling ? The idea that whatever you desire will come true if you only want it bad enough. This is the ultimate rocket fuel for the ego - isn't it ? This is the ultimate fuel for your ego - what could fuel it more ?

I think it is impossible to reconcile TPON with LOA because in TPON there are no thoughts. And every desire is a thought. Period.

If you sit there generating desires/beliefs/ whatever they call it - you are by definition fucking far away from The Now. Don't kid yourself that you are not. Just don't lie about it.

If you are doing anything at all you are not in The Now. Sorry.

The only possible way that LOA helps you is that when you have everything in the world - you realise it's all not going to answer your search. But, it's a bit like heroin ... after you start using you are pretty damaged - it's hard to recover. Some wisdom is required.

I am not sure why people are trying to join LOA and TPON. And I can only assume this means one thing and that is that people in TPON communities have zero idea about what The Now means; and that unconsciousness is well represented in this path.

It's not an accident that the ancient paths required a bit more than paying $6.99 for a book. They required some discipline.

I would really caution people not to pour fuel on your dreamy delusion.

This is how it seems to me. And I would be very interested if anyone can say anything reasonable that contradicts this view : because when you have no thoughts you can't start manifesting a reality you prefer - because preference only exists if you make judgements, and judgements only exist if you are not in The Now. Period. Period.


I would reference this post also where Eckhart Tolle clearly differentiates TPON and LOA :
http://eckhart-tolle-forum.inner-growth.info/viewtopic.php?f=8&t=10214&p=88991#p88991
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 12:09 am

This topic may explain some of the less materialistic aspects of using the LOA
viewtopic.php?f=46&t=9336

In a sense rideforever, you are screaming your intention to the universe to understand this.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jul 07, 2012 1:37 am

It seems, Rideforever my friend, that you are strongly opinionated on this matter. I wonder how much you heard of what was available from this clip.

What are they selling ?

Can you not see the obvious bias in this question? I don't recall any of them asking for money in that clip, but in characterizing it in the way you do suggests you are in fear of being sold. Lighten up and explore. There is some really interesting pointers here that add clarity as to how LoA is about creativity through alignment rather than defaulting through fear and ignorance. Do you not recall (if you actually listened to it) it was said that one's greater being doesn't care at all whether the human extension is rich or poor, but is only interested in new experience. And to the degree that fear gets in the way of experience, life is lived less valuable in terms of conscious expansion than it otherwise might be.

This is the ultimate fuel for your ego - what could fuel it more ?

While you may fear it might fuel your ego, it inspires me to greater alignment and clarity of being. Is it not amazing how two could listen to the same offerings and come away with such totally different experiences? Could it be we see what we want to see?

If you would listen for it, there is a consistent pointing to alignment as the key issue. (Is there a problem with regaining alignment?) What one does in terms of focus while in that alignment is a matter of choice. An interesting point is that ego cannot go to alignment. Alignment is a clear and present state that accepts the way things are. In regaining alignment fear must be released. Fear, over money, relationships, jobs, politics, or whatever, simply cannot be taken into alignment. These distracting concerns are what separates us from that conscious alignment.

If you sit there generating desires/beliefs/ whatever they call it - you are by definition fucking far away from The Now.

Are you sure that is always the case? And even if it were, would that always be a bad thing? If you are presently conscious, and intentionally focused on a matter of interest for a desired experience, does that mean you are unconscious and not in the now? Understand, you cannot not be in the now. That's all there is. You can be unconscious of the now moment through undirected imaginings, or you can be consciously focused in matters of being, or in matters of thought. It's not unconscious if you are consciously aware of where you are focused.

If you are doing anything at all you are not in The Now. Sorry.

No need to be sorry. Life is meant to be explored. I would merely suggest that there is more to living in the now than is clear in your current understanding. No doubt there is more to it than is my current understanding as well. Evolution is an eternal road with ever growing understandings. May we never assume we know anything with finality, for that indeed is a roadblock that must be eventually overcome.

I would really caution people not to pour fuel on your dreamy delusion.

And I would encourage them to explore life's possibilities with clarity and focus while knowing that it is incumbent upon each of us to choose what feels most right. Fear of exploration into the nature of being is not the path to greater understanding. How liberating it is to recognize one's own ego in action. Such recognition may be just the thing to move on to greater clarity and expanding consciousness.

This is how it seems to me. And I would be very interested if anyone can say anything reasonable that contradicts this view : because when you have no thoughts you can't start manifesting a reality you prefer - because preference only exists if you make judgements, and judgements only exist if you are not in The Now. Period. Period.

It must be tough going into a restaurant and ordering dinner. Preference exists based on experience. Why else would you remove your hand from a hot stove? But should one burn his hand, does that mean the stove has been judged and thereby condemned? One would think that a hand on a hot stove is a very 'now' experience - at least until we start calling ourselves names for placing it there. It may be that we just naturally move to better feeling experience when ego is not making such experience wrong.

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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:22 am

Webwanderer wrote:It seems, Rideforever my friend, that you are strongly opinionated on this matter. I wonder how much you heard of what was available from this clip.

I am; sorry if it appears strident.
Webwanderer wrote:If you would listen for it, there is a consistent pointing to alignment as the key issue.

Yes, and this is how the explainers away of LoA get round the issue of fueling the ego.

However seems like BS to me. Alignment is such a vague word and concept - like the word 'terrorist' it's only goal is to stop you trying to understand.

How does this technique operate ? Either you desire something or you don't ? It is clear that actively desiring something is the core of the technique : therefore it encourages the movement of the mind.
Webwanderer wrote:Life is meant to be explored. I would merely suggest that there is more to living in the now than is clear in your current understanding. No doubt there is more to it than is my current understanding as well. Evolution is an eternal road with ever growing understandings. May we never assume we know anything with finality, for that indeed is a roadblock that must be eventually overcome.

And I would encourage them to explore life's possibilities with clarity and focus while knowing that it is incumbent upon each of us to choose what feels most right. Fear of exploration into the nature of being is not the path to greater understanding. How liberating it is to recognize one's own ego in action. Such recognition may be just the thing to move on to greater clarity and expanding consciousness.

The ENTIRE point of the path is so that you DO know something with finality. THAT IS THE POINT.

Are you just advocating unconsciousness ?

"How liberating it is to recognize one's own ego" ..... you don't recognize it that's the thing. You are lost in it ... you talk about TPON etc... but it's just a game in the layers of your mind. And LOA is wrapping you up in more layers of BS IMO.

Webwanderer wrote:It must be tough going into a restaurant and ordering dinner. Preference exists based on experience. Why else would you remove your hand from a hot stove? But should one burn his hand, does that mean the stove has been judged and thereby condemned? One would think that a hand on a hot stove is a very 'now' experience - at least until we start calling ourselves names for placing it there. It may be that we just naturally move to better feeling experience when ego is not making such experience wrong.

There is no such thing as a Now Experience.

If you are in the Now there is no experience or experiencer.

Your bodymind removes the hand from the stove : and you are not your bodymind.

You talk about your ego not making experiences wrong ... YOU are not having this experience. You are not the bodymind.


Maybe you are saying that if you are unconscious then LoA is a good route for you ... ? Then I would ask why ?

Tantra for instance is another technique of abundance you could say where you throw yourself into the world full force. However there is some discipline and emphasis on inner development in Tantra - seems to be little in LoA.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:37 am

If you are in the Now there is no experience or experiencer.


On every level is this a mis-take.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:18 am

Ah, the law of attraction milieu. So much fun!
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jul 07, 2012 4:49 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:
If you are in the Now there is no experience or experiencer.


On every level is this a mis-take.

Agreed Jen. It is a fundamental mis-of-understanding.

Rideforever, there is a good deal of proof in the pudding. You have posted in this forum on more than one occasion of your pain and misery. For example.

viewtopic.php?f=5&t=10644

In fact, it seems you post more often on what pains you, on what is wrong in the world, than of life's beauty and joy. My experience is that LoA and TPoN work together in bringing about a conscious perspective of expanded awareness and clarity, that is a whole lot more fun to live than experiences such as railing against the flaws in religions, and of priest's abuse, will ever offer.

Your imaginings of the value of living entirely void of thought is simply a form of escapism. It is based in fear and is more likely to bring about the pain you don't want simply because of your resistance to (and focus upon) what pains you.

We are designed to think. You cannot avoid it. We may however, influence the nature of our thoughts. Your focus at present seems much less of an open thought-free conscious awareness than it is of a closed-off resistance judging what is wrong. And that is a recipe for more unnecessary pain and suffering.

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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:36 pm

karmarider wrote:Ah, the law of attraction milieu. So much fun!


Glad you're enjoying it. There is so much yet to understand is there not? So much clarity yet to be gained. Life is in constant motion, inevitably evolving towards greater awareness. New explorers coming to their own blossoming awareness. How cool it is to have such a forum to work through these interesting matters of mind and spirit.

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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sat Jul 07, 2012 5:49 pm

Webwanderer wrote:Agreed Jen. It is a fundamental mis-of-understanding.

Your view and SmillieJen's contradicts Eckhart Tolle's as well as every supposed master I have ever read. So excuse if I follow all of them and not some guys I met on a forum.

You say "Agreed". But what do you agree on ? You have no reasoning. No explanation. Are you agreeing to be blind together ? Are you agreeing to not think ?

Stupidity likes company.

You posted ET's response to LoA and it is unequivocal - they don't work together. But your blindness is such that you just ignore what he says and add some vagueness ... and that satisfies you.

Eckhart Tolle is clear that there is no link between LoA and TPON. Because one increases thoughts, and the other seeks to be so present that they fade away. These things are incompatible.

You say "we are designed to think". In this statement you make so many assumptions : and intelligence is the understanding of that.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sat Jul 07, 2012 7:01 pm

rideforever wrote:Stupidity likes company.

Excellent example. LoA in action. :wink:

You posted ET's response to LoA and it is unequivocal - they don't work together. But your blindness is such that you just ignore what he says and add some vagueness ... and that satisfies you.

I don't ignore it at all. I use it as a key element in a larger, more inclusive perspective. I like it a lot.

I wonder if you asked Tolle if he was an authority to be followed exclusively what his answer would be. Is there such a thing as an unquestionable external authority? How would such a belief affect you own direct understanding? Is deference to Tolle any different from those who believe in scriptures as the only true authority?

Eckhart Tolle is clear that there is no link between LoA and TPON. Because one increases thoughts, and the other seeks to be so present that they fade away. These things are incompatible.

LoA may indeed increase thoughts. The more one thinks in a certain way, the more that like thoughts are attracted to awareness. It is merely the workings of the power of Source through the law of attraction to bring to experience that which one is focused upon. Choosing to think in a new direction will, in time, attract the more thoughts of a similar nature. It's just a matter of reconditioning our attention to begin to perceive in a new way.

Even the intentional application of LoA doesn't necessarily increase thoughts. More accurate is that one may focus attention upon that which is preferred and LoA will energize the attraction of that focus. Thought is not what matters most, attention is. If one focuses attention on a quieter mind, such attention will attract more moments of quiet awareness, thus less thinking.

You say "we are designed to think". In this statement you make so many assumptions : and intelligence is the understanding of that.

Maybe so, but they are assumptions based on readily available evidence to anyone who would fairly look. Thinking is a property of virtually every human I've ever met. I see it in my own experience and anyone who looks can see it in their own. Even if they don't look, they think away with regularity. Even the youngest of babes use their capacity for consideration to learn about their environment. Nobody has to teach them to think. They come about it easily and automatically. So assuming we are designed to think is not such a stretch. If fact it would seem a much greater stretch to assume we are not designed to think in light of its universal application in the human experience.

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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:17 pm

I never said that a human is not designed to think.

All I am saying is that TPON is incompatible with LOA.

In the discourse by ET, he is asked point blank about the relationship between TPON and LOA, and he doesn't mention LOA once. That is clear isn't it. Instead what he does is he reiterate to you that desire is as the hand of God; rather than your desire for some situation that you prefer. I think that's very clear.

I also never said that the point of existence is to not think - far from it. I have said that creation is the point. However developing no-mind/the absolute/present moment awareness/the now (whatever you call it) is a requirement to enter creation; and so I am debating with you LOA.

When you listen to AH or Bashar talking about LOA; all they do over and again is field questions about "how can I get what I want". And provide the answer to whoever fielded the question.

I am not saying it does or doesn't work. All I am saying is this is nothing to do with the path. In effect it is what everybody is doing in their unconscious lives - now they can do unconsciousness more effectively.

You talk frequently about what being human is about; your experiences; how pleasant your thoughts are etc...

What if none of these things is you ?

I don't think you realise the scale of unconsciousness or what is on the other side. Perhaps you lack imagination.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Yutso » Sat Jul 07, 2012 8:49 pm

If the ground upon which LoA stands upon is compassion then.....
If not.....then not.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Sat Jul 07, 2012 10:29 pm

I don't see any link between the PON and the ideas around the law of attraction either.

The LOA has been irrelevant to me so the truth or falsity of it hasn't really mattered. When I was miserable, I wasn't interested in the LOA as I recognized that the solution to misery is not any sort of belief or practice. In fact, belief can very much be a part of the insanity of fear. As I become natural and clear, and as misery and fear depart, so does the tendency to want to believe or disbelieve in a particular thing.

The LOA says we attract what we are. Well, if that's the case, then it actually isn't good news. The preponderance of humanity lives in the context of fear, and if the LOA works, then it can only attract fearful outcomes. So when we are full of fear, we are in no position to test the hypothesis of the LOA. It makes much more sense to be free and clear first.

But ironically, as freedom and clarity ensue, the tendency or need to to believe in any particular way the universe works, goes away.

We can dismiss the popular incarnation of LOA which seems to suggest that you can can have all the goodies you want by playing up your desires. To believe that is also to believe that the larger portion of humanity which goes without essentials like clean water and sufficient food has somehow attracted that misery in their own lives. Hehe, that might be good news if this were so--all we then have to do is rain down pamphlets of LOA on the starving. Replace hotel bibles with "The Secret"! As Krishnamurti pointed out, the insanity is that we tend to replace one set of beliefs with another call it awakening.

The Bible does not support the LOA. That's quite a reach! To reap what you sow can mean something as reasonable as that there are consequences to our actions.

There also seems to be a tendency to point to other people's misery and somehow tie it to the LOA. Yes, people are miserable. It's a wonderful thing when people begin to expose their misery here on this forum. Compassion can also understand that the exposition of misery is often fearful and angry. But to link misery or apparent happiness to belief and unbelief in the LOA--well, that's not it.

Really, does it sound the least bit reasonable to try to wipe away misery with a belief system or a practice? There's no question that that is exactly what people have been trying to do with religion and spirituality; there is also no question that none of that has worked in 10000 years of trying.

People are miserable.The LOA has nothing to do with it. To say that a particular belief system or practice will cure misery is highly misleading. It's far more credible that it is actually the desperation in the insanity of misery which drives the attachment and defense of particular beliefs.

What if we just face up to the fear and misery, and just rely on ourselves? That's actually much easier. And more effective.

Does the practice of LOA lead to awakening? Well, I haven't really heard any of the awakened masters make that claim. And this has not been the case in my experience. Beliefs, whether they are true or not, just get in the way.

Does ET support the LOA? I don't think so.

Adherents of LOA are fond of saying the LOA works whether you believe in it or not--well that can be said about any belief system we want to be true. The spaghetti monster circling the galaxy controls all your thoughts, and that is true whether you believe it or not, but if you believe in it you can leverage it!

To suggest that LOA-opponents just have not reached an advanced level of understanding and someday they too will see the light--well, honestly that sounds a little superior, similar to suggesting that LOA-adherents are just ego and fear disguised as belief. Rocks and glass everywhere.

None of these arguments for the LOA is convincing.

Of course, this does mean the LOA is false.

Clearly, there is something to the way desires influence our lives. Desires are not bad; what's troublesome are mental conflicts around desires. I think each of us has had the direct experience that when there is desire without mental conflicts, life generally works in the way we want it to. But there's nothing mystical about that; it doesn't require a "law" or handbook to see that. When a desire is authentic and there are no mental conflicts, then we naturally leverage the opportunities which support the outcome and we naturally avoid the obstacles. That doesn't require belief or practice, just clarity and common sense.

Whether the LOA is true or it is false is not interesting. I am not miserable and I am now in love with the experience of life, so I actually feel that I am now in a good position to test the hypothesis of the LOA--but I have no interest doing so. I don't know how the universe works and I am quite happy in the unknowing. Any belief or practice now would actually be limiting.

Any human exploration, including the exploration of the LOA is legitimate.

But to suggest that there is link between the LOA and awakening is misleading. To suggest that the practice of LOA is an advanced form of awakening is highly misleading.

Awakening takes self-reliance, not belief or practice.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:03 am

There are so many false arguments and strawmen in this post it's hard to count them. Here is one that stands out.

karmarider wrote:There also sees to be a tendency to point to other people's misery and somehow make the connection that people's misery is tied to their belief or unbelief in the LOA. Yes, people are miserable, that's why they come here to this forum. It's a wonderful thing when people begin to expose their misery here on this forum. Compassion can also understand that the exposition of misery is often fearful and angry. But to link misery or apparent happiness to belief and unbelief in the LOA--well, that's not it.


I wonder where you got the notion "that people's misery is tied to their belief or unbelief in the LOA." Certainly you have not heard it from me. Such a distorted notion of the nature of LoA can only lead to confusion, as it obviously has. One might suggest that misstatements such as this lead to perceptual misunderstandings and therefore add credence to LoA.

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