LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:31 am

rideforever wrote: I have said that creation is the point. However developing no-mind/the absolute/present moment awareness/the now (whatever you call it) is a requirement to enter creation; and so I am debating with you LOA.

This is quite near a good understanding of LoA. Don't let mental bias resistant to LoA get in the way of yet clearer understanding.

developing no-mind/the absolute/present moment awareness/the now (whatever you call it)

This is the state necessary to attain/regain alignment as stated in conscious application of LoA. Nearly identical.

is a requirement to enter creation

I agree to a large extent. The power behind creation is Source/God/The Infinite, is it not? You are an extension of the Creator, are you not? Is this not the nature of being One? So what then is the purpose of 'no-mind/alignment' if not to be a conscious conduit for the creative flow into this physical world? And what then determines the creation that manifests?

You are a leading edge of Source Being - being human. You are Source being human. Your interests, your curiosities, you desires for experience, as an extension of Source Consciousness, are what determines, through the focus of your attention the direction of the creative flow. Your focus of attention is how law of attraction works.

The experience we get from the creations made manifest give guidance for subsequent choices on where we next focus our attention.

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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Yutso » Sun Jul 08, 2012 2:23 am

Was Jesus in alignment with the law of attraction?
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Sun Jul 08, 2012 3:07 am

Webwanderer wrote:There are so many false arguments and strawmen in this post it's hard to count them.


hmm, that's convenient, let's just say that everything is false. But you may be right in that there is no need for rational discourse when it comes to the LOA. The two do not mix.

I wonder where you got the notion "that people's misery is tied to their belief or unbelief in the LOA." ...


I got the notion directly from you. And what I actually said was the opposite.

If people want to believe in the LOA, that's their business. History is rampant with people who've wanted to believe and defend all sorts of things, and a few of those beliefs might even have been whackier than the LOA.

You can't mess with people's beliefs--that's when the ego gets really diabolical. I already know this and have no need to argue against whatever people want to believe.

But I do want to clarify and say that belief has nothing to with awakening and it often gets in the way. The attempts to tie the LOA to awakening or to claim that it is some sort of advanced form of awakening or to mix ET's teachings with the LOA--that's quite a stretch.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 6:46 am

I got to the bit 06:52 on the video and laughed out loud, a rush of joy energy saying 'god this guy's good' - in respect of straddling the knowledge and interpreting it back into language. Yes, how many will 'know' the and tune into its resonances - maybe not many, but it's worth slowing down for aware / willing digestion and interpretation / translation into energy (for any with 'blockages' of fear or making enemy of may I suggest 'hear' it in the voice of the kindest, oldest, widest elder you can).

From our perspective,
to alter your reality
is to get in touch with,
consciously,
the beliefs that have created the reality you've been experiencing so far.
To find out what that belief is,
to identify it and define it,
which will give you conscious re-cognition
of what has been generating your reality.

Once you have defined the belief,
you can can then understand,
as a mechanism,
how it has been generating the frequency
that's caused the reflection you've been experiencing.

And, once you define it and recognise that as the mechanism,
you can replace it with a 'belief' (understanding) that you prefer
and then you can also 'believe' if you wish,
that that new belief will replace the old one just as effectively and create reality just as effectively as the old belief.
and thus, then it generates new emotions, new thoughts, new behaviours.
You will then get a new reality that is reflective of those ideas.


that is of course after them collectively defining 'reality' from the human perspective as ....
Thought creates form,
but your emotional states vibrate it into being ... so, whatever you are putting out emotionally, you are going to get back 'energetically'
and because the physical reality is reflecting the emotional, if they are lower frequencies (fear) that you are putting out, then what you're getting back in the physical realm are the lower frequencies.

...
Whatever vibration you give off
whatever frequency you create or generate
determines utterly and absolutely
whatever experiences are reflected back to you
from your reality
because physical reality really does not empirically exist, apart from your definition of it.
Even your own quantum physicists are beginning to discover this.

So, physical reality is likened to a mirror,
so that you can decide whether you want to retain that frequency, or idea,
or whether you wish to change it.

... the soul would rather have a bad experience for you than no experience at all.
...You see, those humans who try to run from experiencing things and doing things and creating things.... are really frustrating their own souls.



I can't see any 'problem' with this and ET's being present, or of being aware of when fear and pain body - held onto ideas slow our vibrational joy of being.

If the 'idea' that is being had about loa being about material things, therein lays the reflection being manifest back to you, it is about the quality of our experience in awareness and consciousness. That it doesn't exclude material elements within the experience is not the point.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:11 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:I can't see any 'problem' with this and ET's being present, or of being aware of when fear and pain body - held onto ideas slow our vibrational joy of being.


Yes, indeed. Held-on-to ideas take away joy.

The quotation seems to say that by eliminating limiting beliefs and replacing them with more beautiful beliefs, you will create a better reality for yourself. I don't really have any problem with this.

Except that it has nothing to do with awakening. It is not required to believe this to awaken. Awakening does not lead to a belief in this. A belief in this does not make awakening worse or better.

When fear goes, so do held-onto ideas.

If the 'idea' that is being had about loa being about material things, therein lays the reflection being manifest back to you, it is about the quality of our experience in awareness and consciousness. That it doesn't exclude material elements within the experience is not the point.


Yes, certainly, there is reaction to the LOA's absurd materialism. It's narcissistic, untrue, misleading. It's snake-oil. But that's not what I was getting at.

My objection is that it is highly misleading to claim that the LOA has something to do with awakening, or that it is even consistent with the message of awakening. It is not. The LOA is a belief. Awakening is the disintegration of belief.

The LOA has no more to do with awakening than the idea of karma, or heaven-and-hell, or an external God, or any other belief system.

When fear goes, so do beliefs.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:36 am

The LOA has no more to do with awakening than the idea of karma, or heaven-and-hell, or an external God, or any other belief system.

When fear goes, so do beliefs.

Ah, and in a 'perfect' world.... :wink:

Understanding energies in motion is probably no more, no less of valuethan understanding 'pain bodies' 'presence' 'now' or other frequencies of energy in motion.

I don't know that anyone claims LOA having anything to do with awakening, any more than knowing that making an enemy, obstacle, means to an end, does. They are 'explanations' of human experiences, as far as I can tell. I've yet to have anyone adequately explain 'awakening' to me in the sense that some use it as if it's an exclusive state - all things are fluid and in motion, so I guess that's kind of a 'given' for me that no thing accurately describes or leads to awakening outside of awakening itself.

It's interesting to me in the sense that the passion (energy) taken to 'fight' the notions of what is being said about the mirror / boomerang effect of drawing energies to yourself by your perceptions resonating at that level of frequency is kinda ... forgive me ... funny in that it kind of proves its own point.

There are probably as many who make enemy, obstacle, means to an end of Tolle's messages and his concept of 'ego'.

I guess I'm happy with loa in the sense that (for me) it's just another flow of energy, and awareness of that.

In the other thread - snowy's example of loa in action - for me it's more evident in energy flows of judging, and the return of then being judged in the same manner, learning by experience the folly of passionately denouncing or making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of at thing... so in this sense I can see a comparison with some of Tolle's teachings, no two are going to express it in the same way/words because they are standing at different points of viewing it.

It is true (for me) that there is a particularly strength of vibrating frequency that is 'enacted' and absolutely does bring you to a different place of understanding, through experience unfolding - if you are willing to take that ride. it is also true that you will limit your experiences by your beliefs
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sun Jul 08, 2012 12:34 pm

Well ET was asked directly about the link and he basically said no.

Now ... someone can come along and say :

"Ah Ha - you are making an enemy out of LoA ... I laugh at your stupidity ... this just proves my point etc..."

to which I would say : "No, I was just listening to the author of TPON".

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Anyway why is anyone trying to make a link ?

LoA seems to me to be like this : There are a lot of crazy monkeys living on a planet killing each other and this species will be dead in a few hundred years. A few of them have become convinced that if they try really hard to believe in one of their crazy ideas ... then it will come true and possibly shift dimension into another dimension where there crazy idea is already true.

I would say : "Ok - maybe that will happen. Maybe one of your crazy ideas will come true."

I myself am trying not to be crazy.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:13 pm

As I considered the most recent misunderstandings and misrepresentations of the teachings of Abraham in particular, and LoA in general, I realized that a remarkably similar discussion has been undertaken many times before over the years on this forum and elsewhere. What I refer to is the many times a member has attacked Tolle over money issues in what he charges for his seminars, and the 'millions' he no doubt makes from his books.

I always found it curious that such an irrelevant concerns as Tolle's income would take center stage over the incredible abundance and experiential value of his teachings. Tolle offers a perspective that is light years beyond money issues, and yet it was virtually discarded for the in-consequence of a few dollars - money that didn't even have to be spent to access his teachings. How many times Tolle was attacked as a charlatan just in for the money and taking advantage of idiots and fools and the 'stupid' was remarkable.

Now here we are again with a teaching of great value to the human experience and it is misunderstood and misrepresented in much the same way as those attacking Tolle. Many of the same arguments have been made. 'Con-artists getting rich', etc. Claims that TPoN and LoA, cannot be reconciled. Fear mongering that people are being led down a path to destruction. The comparisons to the Tolle debates are evident.

No doubt denials will be forthcoming from those that make the claims of fraud - that it's somehow different this time. However, just like in the case with Tolle, those who deeply connected with his message and realized through their own direct experience its value to awakening and clarity, will be unmoved by such claims.

I ask you to genuinely consider if there is any value in a clear understanding LoA. Is there any at all? I would suggest here something that is likely frightening to the bias of ego because ego has a propensity to create sacred cows of one's perspective. We all know this is true. If you can find even a shred of value in the teachings of Abraham, and if you will focus upon it with a sustained open interest and curiosity, it will open into a whole new perspective of clarity and understanding. It will make a remarkable difference in your life that is inclusive of the teachings of Tolle and many others.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 4:27 pm

karmarider wrote:The quotation seems to say that by eliminating limiting beliefs and replacing them with more beautiful beliefs, you will create a better reality for yourself. I don't really have any problem with this.

Except that it has nothing to do with awakening.

But it does. The perspective required to recognize the nature of beliefs and their role in creating experience can only come from a more awakened state (than the one where such recognition is unseen). Awakening is not just a matter of black or white, on or off(although it may seem so at first), it is a matter of degree while layers of ever greater perspective is gained. That is after all, the nature of the evolution of consciousness.

To one who clearly knows that beliefs are transitory, and yet essential to the uniqueness of experience, choices become more fluid in creating the experiences one prefers.

certainly, there is reaction to the LOA's absurd materialism.

LoA has no absurd materialism, people do. That's like saying 'guns kill' when it's people who pull the trigger. LoA is simply the unceasing flow of creative energy that manifests the conditions for experience, and one activates it in their lives by virtue of their focus of attention.

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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:06 pm

Webwanderer wrote:As I considered the most recent misunderstandings and misrepresentations of the teachings of Abraham in particular, and LoA in general, I realized that a remarkably similar discussion has been undertaken many times before over the years on this forum and elsewhere. What I refer to is the many times a member has attacked Tolle over money issues in what he charges for his seminars, and the 'millions' he no doubt makes from his books.

I always found it curious that such an irrelevant concerns as Tolle's income would take center stage over the incredible abundance and experiential value of his teachings. Tolle offers a perspective that is light years beyond money issues, and yet it was virtually discarded for the in-consequence of a few dollars - money that didn't even have to be spent to access his teachings. How many times Tolle was attacked as a charlatan just in for the money and taking advantage of idiots and fools and the 'stupid' was remarkable.

Now here we are again with a teaching of great value to the human experience and it is misunderstood and misrepresented in much the same way as those attacking Tolle. Many of the same arguments have been made. 'Con-artists getting rich', etc. Claims that TPoN and LoA, cannot be reconciled. Fear mongering that people are being led down a path to destruction. The comparisons to the Tolle debates are evident.

No doubt denials will be forthcoming from those that make the claims of fraud - that it's somehow different this time. However, just like in the case with Tolle, those who deeply connected with his message and realized through their own direct experience its value to awakening and clarity, will be unmoved by such claims.

I ask you to genuinely consider if there is any value in a clear understanding LoA. Is there any at all? I would suggest here something that is likely frightening to the bias of ego because ego has a propensity to create sacred cows of one's perspective. We all know this is true. If you can find even a shred of value in the teachings of Abraham, and if you will focus upon it with a sustained open interest and curiosity, it will open into a whole new perspective of clarity and understanding. It will make a remarkable difference in your life that is inclusive of the teachings of Tolle and many others.


You attack people who raise questions and would like explanations. That is all you are doing here.


Webwanderer wrote:
karmarider wrote:The quotation seems to say that by eliminating limiting beliefs and replacing them with more beautiful beliefs, you will create a better reality for yourself. I don't really have any problem with this.

Except that it has nothing to do with awakening.

But it does. The perspective required to recognize the nature of beliefs and their role in creating experience can only come from a more awakened state (than the one where such recognition is unseen). Awakening is not just a matter of black or white, on or off(although it may seem so at first), it is a matter of degree while layers of ever greater perspective is gained. That is after all, the nature of the evolution of consciousness.

To one who clearly knows that beliefs are transitory, and yet essential to the uniqueness of experience, choices become more fluid in creating the experiences one prefers.


You keep talking about your experience. You don't question whether this experience has anything to do with you. In other words you are unconscious. Lost in a world of wanting more stuff, faster with better techniques.

Webwanderer wrote:
certainly, there is reaction to the LOA's absurd materialism.

LoA has no absurd materialism, people do. That's like saying 'guns kill' when it's people who pull the trigger. LoA is simply the unceasing flow of creative energy that manifests the conditions for experience, and one activates it in their lives by virtue of their focus of attention.


The people who arrive at LoA seminars are just unconscious people for the most part. And the materialistic nature of the teaching is very heavily emphasised ... and this will cause these people further pain as they get even more wrapped up in the future outcomes of what they are doing ... as if the entire world culture isn't unconscious enough as it is - LoA has to drop a nuclear bomb on it.

It's no use saying that 'at the end of the day we are all one'. Because that's not where these people are at. And if you remove guns from society then fewer people get shot - this obvious logic is something that all non-American people know.

Perhaps there is something useful in LoA : but WW you don't seem to know what it is.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sun Jul 08, 2012 5:23 pm

Webwanderer wrote:I agree to a large extent. The power behind creation is Source/God/The Infinite, is it not? You are an extension of the Creator, are you not? Is this not the nature of being One? So what then is the purpose of 'no-mind/alignment' if not to be a conscious conduit for the creative flow into this physical world? And what then determines the creation that manifests?

You are a leading edge of Source Being - being human. You are Source being human. Your interests, your curiosities, you desires for experience, as an extension of Source Consciousness, are what determines, through the focus of your attention the direction of the creative flow. Your focus of attention is how law of attraction works.

The experience we get from the creations made manifest give guidance for subsequent choices on where we next focus our attention.

You talk about this stuff ... and you just read it out of a book. Like SJ who keeps talking about alpha beta gamma delta energies. Anyone in touch with reality here ? You just read this stuff on LoA websites and then regurgitate it here.

Do you think regurgitation has something to do with being in contact with reality ??

God has given you the power to be honest or dishonest about what you actually experience.

Perhaps there is something good with LoA ... but you guys just don't know what it is - you just repeating what you heard !
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:06 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:Understanding energies in motion is probably no more, no less of valuethan understanding 'pain bodies' 'presence' 'now' or other frequencies of energy in motion.


Ok.


I don't know that anyone claims LOA having anything to do with awakening, any more than knowing that making an enemy, obstacle, means to an end, does.


If that's really the case than I have nothing to say. The objection here is the implication that the LOA belief system has anything to do with awakening.

They are 'explanations' of human experiences, as far as I can tell. I've yet to have anyone adequately explain 'awakening' to me in the sense that some use it as if it's an exclusive state - all things are fluid and in motion, so I guess that's kind of a 'given' for me that no thing accurately describes or leads to awakening outside of awakening itself.


I define awakening very simply and without resorting to spiritual terminology. Fear is the context in which the human mind develops. Eliminate the fear and insanity goes away.

It's interesting to me in the sense that the passion (energy) taken to 'fight' the notions of what is being said about the mirror / boomerang effect of drawing energies to yourself by your perceptions resonating at that level of frequency is kinda ... forgive me ... funny in that it kind of proves its own point.


This is exactly right. Since you already believe in mirroring energies and LOA, this is what you see. When there is belief we can only see through the filter of belief. And so everything appears as confirmation.

Jen, this is not rational point--it's circular. I don't believe in karma and someone who believes in karma will say that the reason I don't believe in karma is because it is my karma not believe in it. Which to them proves that karma is truth.

There are probably as many who make enemy, obstacle, means to an end of Tolle's messages and his concept of 'ego'.


Yes, there are. The words "make enemy, obstacle" are already judgmental. We can take the judgment out of this, and say simply that all beliefs are suffused by the ego.

I guess I'm happy with loa in the sense that (for me) it's just another flow of energy, and awareness of that.


That's fine. If people want to believe, that's what they will do. But it has nothing to do with awakening.

In the other thread - snowy's example of loa in action - for me it's more evident in energy flows of judging, and the return of then being judged in the same manner, learning by experience the folly of passionately denouncing or making enemy, obstacle, means to an end of at thing... so in this sense I can see a comparison with some of Tolle's teachings, no two are going to express it in the same way/words because they are standing at different points of viewing it.


Yes, and if you're a passionate believer in karma, you will see the consistency in ET's teachings with karma; and if you're a passionate believer in positive thinking, then you will see that that's what ET's talking about, and if you are a believer in mirroring energies then that's what you will see in Tolle's teaching.

But these are all beliefs--Tolle is not talking about beliefs.

It is true (for me) that there is a particularly strength of vibrating frequency that is 'enacted' and absolutely does bring you to a different place of understanding, through experience unfolding - if you are willing to take that ride. it is also true that you will limit your experiences by your beliefs


Yes, exactly so. You limit your experiences by your beliefs. Belief in the LOA is no exception. Replacing one set of beliefs with more beautiful beliefs is exactly what human beings have been doing for 10000 years and it is very much a part of the insanity of the human condition, and it is the very thing which ET tries to get us to go beyond.

But still, I'm not debating against the LOA--if people want to do that, it's fine. But to say that the LOA has anything to do with awakening is highly misleading.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:49 pm

rideforever wrote:You talk about this stuff ... and you just read it out of a book. Like SJ who keeps talking about alpha beta gamma delta energies. Anyone in touch with reality here ? You just read this stuff on LoA websites and then regurgitate it here.

Do you think regurgitation has something to do with being in contact with reality ??

My, how well you seem to know me. Are you this intuitive with everyone, or just those you disagree with?

I started this thread in the Law Of Attraction section of this forum as it is subject specific. The point was to point out the similarities in how different channeled sources, sans Abraham, make nearly identical statements on the more significant issues on the nature of LoA. Smiileyjen's transcription off the video gets directly to the heart of it. Well worth a scroll up for a re-read. We seem to have gotten considerably off course now.

Consider, if LoA offends you so much, why are you wasting your time in this thread when there are so many others that might bring more understanding to your current perspective? If you can't start from what's here in this thread and make quality steps forward, go to one that appeals to you, that brings you more clarity and peace. There's no need to churn yourself into such turmoil over perspectives that you cannot change.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Sun Jul 08, 2012 7:54 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
karmarider wrote:The quotation seems to say that by eliminating limiting beliefs and replacing them with more beautiful beliefs, you will create a better reality for yourself. I don't really have any problem with this.

Except that it has nothing to do with awakening.


But it does.


It does not. The LOA is a belief.

The perspective required to recognize the nature of beliefs and their role in creating experience can only come from a more awakened state (than the one where such recognition is unseen). Awakening is not just a matter of black or white, on or off(although it may seem so at first), it is a matter of degree while layers of ever greater perspective is gained. That is after all, the nature of the evolution of consciousness.


Then the perspective of no-belief is greater and more evolved than the one where the attachment and defense of LOA feels necessary.

All human adventure is legitimate (except the ones which cause harm to others). So the exploration of LOA is legitimate, like the exploration of God or Intelligent Design or any other belief system, if that's what people want to do. But the LOA has nothing to do with awakening, it is not necessary to believe in the LOA to awaken. The LOA is not part of ET's message. The LOA is not a greater perspective. The LOA is not an advanced form of seeing. It is like all beliefs, suffused with the ego. From my perspective, the LOA is actually quite limiting. Which does not make it wrong; it's still legitimate if that's what you want to explore. But it is not awakening.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:07 pm

Webwanderer wrote:
rideforever wrote:You talk about this stuff ... and you just read it out of a book. Like SJ who keeps talking about alpha beta gamma delta energies. Anyone in touch with reality here ? You just read this stuff on LoA websites and then regurgitate it here.

Do you think regurgitation has something to do with being in contact with reality ??

My, how well you seem to know me. Are you this intuitive with everyone, or just those you disagree with?

I started this thread in the Law Of Attraction section of this forum as it is subject specific. The point was to point out the similarities in how different channeled sources, sans Abraham, make nearly identical statements on the more significant issues on the nature of LoA. Smiileyjen's transcription off the video gets directly to the heart of it. Well worth a scroll up for a re-read. We seem to have gotten considerably off course now.

Consider, if LoA offends you so much, why are you wasting your time in this thread when there are so many others that might bring more understanding to your current perspective? If you can't start from what's here in this thread and make quality steps forward, go to one that appeals to you, that brings you more clarity and peace. There's no need to churn yourself into such turmoil over perspectives that you cannot change.

This thread isn't about you. There are many voices here.

LoA doesn't offend me; in fact I sense something good in it for me ... I was hoping someone might know what it is. You don't seem to.
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