LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Manifesting your reality or the Law of Attraction

Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 8:35 pm

karmarider wrote:The objection here is the implication that the LOA belief system has anything to do with awakening...

If people want to believe, that's what they will do. But it has nothing to do with awakening...

You limit your experiences by your beliefs. And I don't have a problem with that if that's what people want to do. The point here is that LOA has nothing to do with awakening...

What are you trying to say here? :wink:


The LOA is a belief.

Maybe, but so to is this a belief, is it not? It's certainly true that my perspective and Jen's and your's and every one else's perspective on LoA is at it's core a belief, simply because it's rooted in a limited perspective. That being said however, does not mean that LoA is not real. Can you say definitively, and accurately, that it is not real? No. You can say you believe it's not real and I would certainly honor that. Your perspective is your business, and like the rest of us, you have to live within your belief systems... until you adopt new ones.


I define awakening very simply and without resorting to spiritual terminology. Fear is the context in which the human mind develops. Eliminate the fear and insanity goes away...

Then the perspective of no-belief is greater and more evolved than the one where the attachment and defense of LOA feels necessary...

And these are still more beliefs.. Do you disagree?

And I would add that no one else is bound by your definition. It is your own to bear. I'm not even suggesting that it is wrong, just that there is a larger, more inclusive understanding that is available; and until you see from some larger perspective you will be limited by your belief in this exclusive definition. I'm not picking on you, it's the same for all of us where ever we might be in consciousness. Life and consciousness is infinite, is it not? Do we know it all at this moment, or is there more yet to be conscious of?

Back to your first quotes on LoA having nothing to do with awakening. There is a context where that is not inaccurate. However, I would suggest that any and all experience can contribute to awakening under the right conditions. We each have our own unique experiences and no one but each of us alone can glean awakening perspective out of our individualized experiences.

Is it not fair and accurate that we all live through our own unique belief structures? And even if one claims to have no beliefs, that in itself is a belief. The perspectives we hold are perceptions through the beliefs we hold. If we are clear on that, it opens the door to adjusting those beliefs. If we 'believe' life is infinite, and consciousness is ever expanding, the perspectives built on the beliefs we currently hold must eventually be put aside in favor of greater understanding. This, 'I believe', is the path of the evolution of being. No doubt there is more to it...or so I believe.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:14 pm

rideforever wrote:LoA doesn't offend me; in fact I sense something good in it for me ... I was hoping someone might know what it is. You don't seem to.

But I do know what's in it that's good for me, and that's what I point to. No one can say for certain what's best for another. We can only sort through the marketplace of ideas and choose according to our own instincts.

I would suggest that you ignore all of the talk about getting stuff. The real value in law of attraction is in the conscious expansion that comes from opening to Source.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 9:54 pm

KR I think we are saying the same thing.
The human experience includes thoughts/beliefs, discernments/judgements and by the tenacity/vibration of those so our 'reality' will be experienced/noticed.

Where I notice 'fear' in regard to LOA is where it puts the onus of response ability on the one having/viewing/ experiencing their reality to take response ability for elements of the unfolding of it.

It's far easier for egoic self to blame external factors (make enemy, obstacle, means to an end of) than to 'notice' the vibrations of thought energy that create that reality.

It is absolutely embarrassing for the ego to accept circumstances, situations and be told ... you created this.

Denial, resistance, projection, responding in fear, making enemy of the notions that point this out because if not awake you then might look at self as the enemy, because you cannot honestly look at others in the situation as the 'enemy',

making obstacles to awareness of what is and how to creatively, awarely, work with that in acceptance, enjoyment, enthusiasm - being in a conscious state

or making means to an end of the situation - however that may play out .. as victim or victor, which yes is also circular as it takes you back to the start making enemy of.

If however you are open to 'notice' energies at play and notice the quality of energy in motion be it from your own manifesting or the manifesting of others you can circumvent the egoic reaction.

For the most part it means no different to ET saying be aware of your thoughts, don't make an enemy etc of them but also don't feed the pain body.

Rideforever this bit's for you as lo and behold ET was the one who validated for me the importance of noticing the quality of energy in motion - from A New Earth in the section How the pain body feeds on your thoughts - for me it says no different to what is being said in that video or in my discussion on how 'science' is finding the same thing with regard to brain states

The pain body awakens from its dormancy when it gets hungry, when it's time to replenish itself. Alternatively, it may get triggered by an event at any time. the pain body that is ready to feed can use the most insignificant event as a trigger, something somebody says or does, or even a thought. If you are alone or there is nobody around at the time, the pain body will feed on your thoughts.

Suddenly, your thinking becomes deeply negative.

You were most likely unaware that just prior to the influx of negative thinking a wave of emotion invaded your mind - as a dark and heavy mood, as anxiety or fiery anger.

All thought is energy
and the pain body is now feeding on the energy of your thoughts. But it cannot feed on any thought.

You don't have to be particularly sensitive to notice that a positive thought has a totally different feeling-tone than a negative one. It is the same energy but vibrates at a different frequency.

A happy, positive thought is indigestible to the pain body. It can only feed on negative thoughts because only those thoughts are compatible with its own energy fields.

All things are vibrating energy fields in ceaseless motion.


(gee wonder where I got that idea from that our brain states, the quality of our vibration inc alpha beta delta etc has any bearing on being AWAKE)
....

What we perceive as physical matter is energy vibrating (moving) at a particular range of frequencies. Thoughts consist of the same energy vibrating at a higher frequency than matter, which is why they cannot be seen or touched. Thoughts have their own range of frequencies, with negative thoughts at the lower end and positive thoughts at the higher.

(oh, you mean like the ones that manifest your perception of your reality as discussed in the quote from the video above?)

The vibrational frequency of the pain-body resonates with that of negative thoughts, which is why only those thoughts can feel the pain body.
... (discussion on how this occurs)

... The voice in your head will be telling sad, anxious, or angry stories about yourself or your life, about other people, about past, future or imaginary events. The voice will be blaming, accusing, complaining, imagining. and you are totally identified with whatever the voice says, believe all its distorted thoughts. At that point the addiction to unhappiness has set in.

It's not so much that you cannot stop your train of negative thoughts, but that you don't want to.

This is because the pain body at that time is living through you, pretending to be you.

.... etc etc etc to the end of the chapter


and on to Chapter 6, Breaking free.
which includes the notion - ...."in the greater scheme of things, human beings are meant to evolve into conscious beings, and those who don't will suffer the consequences of their unconsciousness. They are out of alignment with the evolutionary impulse of the universe.

There is more of value in those chapters, what is being channelled in that video resonates at a level outside of the frequency of the pain body, the pain body will not want you to hear it, will make enemy, obstacle, means to an end of it.

By the very nature of the frequency that is being employed with it, so will be the 'relative reality' of the experience of it.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:10 pm

The other link that is going around shows ET responding to questions of LoA. He gave a long response with the following points :

> he does not mention LoA

> he reaffirms that desire is not your desire but the hand of God


... so ... now if you can make it work in your head that he is supportive of a link between LoA and TPON .... well I think that's BS.


Again. I am not saying you don't get what you want. Nor that it has no value.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby SandyJoy » Sun Jul 08, 2012 10:57 pm

I think it is a bit more like "law of reflection" :D

We are the world we walk through. There is only One Awareness, Awareness and Identity are the Same One--so the world is happening within My Self.

I am the unbound, unleashed Awareness that has no beginning and no end; the Child I Am is Freedom Itself---I find My Freedom Here as I and the world is set free---At least that is what or where I think we are unfolding to see, be and Live---the Truth of our Real identity is Freedom.

We find Love unties us from the false concepts and illusionary bonds---and Grace leads us aright---We are who we are when we find out who we are not and never were---There is such joy in letting go the thinker, and then, to find ourselves the Thinking of Isness. Then we as we are Made New, we do look out and see a New World, a New Day, fresh, alive, joyful, sights and sounds and wonders and things.

I reflect my state of being. We all do. The Self is One Self as this One and Only Awareness and there is no personal form that can possess this Awareness---all forms, personal or otherwise exist within this Awareness I Am.


Understanding that the world is a mirror of the Self does have a whole lot to do with 'awakening' ---it is one of those marvels Glimpses of Truth that bring us an Illumination which allows us to see who and what we really are.

As we let go the old limited view and open our heart to an expanded view of our Self, we open the doors of perception, or we could say we rise to higher point of view--- and begin to understand many things that were not seen before.

One of them being that there is only One Self which is This very Awareness right here and right now writing and reading all the words; This Awareness goes wherever I Am-- I and this Awareness are One. It is My Identity. The world, everything, all things are always seen within this Awareness I am. So all appearances are appearing Here within the Self-Awareness I am, there is nothing 'out side' of Awareness, or outside of My Self.


"...and as I be lifted up my world is lifted with me..." said the enlightened prophet from Galilee.

I think that understanding that what we hold in our beliefs will be seen in the world has just about everything to do with awakening. It is certainly one of the main insights we are given as we journey the road of self realization and awakening.

No one seeks understanding simply for their own personal ego improvement or to get things. We know intuitively that if we find the Truth, others can find it also, and we know that if we improve ourself, we will help to make a better world.

Gandhi, being enlightened, said, be the peace you want to see. Why did he say that? Because he knew there was only one Mind---we are the world we walk through.

"While we look not at the things which are seen, but at the things which are not seen: for the things which are seen are temporal; but the things which are not seen are eternal." So, really, it is more about changing our perspective, changing our mind and heart, our attitude, our spirit, our mind and thoughts. It's not about getting 'material things' but about seeing that all material things are powerless appearances within The Awareness I Am. Seeing that, releases us from the appearances, no longer giving 'things' the power to control our 'emotions' or our "outlook". Then that release brings us a great Peace and Harmony of Being, a Sweet Softness of Calm and Joy, a Tender, Gentle Heart that knows real Peace and Harmony---We have been changed and the Light within us is reflected in the world around us---

We change here as this one, and all things change because there is only one.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Ralph » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:31 pm

Wow ! Sandyjoy , Great post !

Somehow, if I let go of my separateness, I get what your saying.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby smiileyjen101 » Sun Jul 08, 2012 11:53 pm

Bravo Sandy!! Bravo!!

In reference, in the video it is said that "... none of 'it' (material and personal experience) matters to the soul. Soul/spirit cares about consciousness / awareness > the joy of being > in other words experiencing what it is in front of you to experience."

and "It's not ... reward / punish... it's very impersonal and different to the concept of a punishing or judgemental ... you create your perception"

and "the soul would rather you have a bad experience for you than no experience at all"

and "...the vast majority of humans spend their precious moments chasing after the little things"

and "...physical reality is likened to a mirror so that yo can decide whether you want to retain that frequency or idea, or whether you wish to change it."

...all energy is there to serve you, it seeks to serve you.

and "when you make choices, you literally re-energise yourself.
And the master allows energy to serve them".

Law of reflection is indeed very apt, in both a verb (the 'allowing' of reflecting) and noun (as in what is reflected back to you).

Very nicely said Sandyjoy.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Mon Jul 09, 2012 12:46 am

Webwanderer wrote:Back to your first quotes on LoA having nothing to do with awakening. There is a context where that is not inaccurate. However, I would suggest that any and all experience can contribute to awakening under the right conditions. We each have our own unique experiences and no one but each of us alone can glean awakening perspective out of our individualized experiences.

Is it not fair and accurate that we all live through our own unique belief structures? And even if one claims to have no beliefs, that in itself is a belief. The perspectives we hold are perceptions through the beliefs we hold. If we are clear on that, it opens the door to adjusting those beliefs. If we 'believe' life is infinite, and consciousness is ever expanding, the perspectives built on the beliefs we currently hold must eventually be put aside in favor of greater understanding. This, 'I believe', is the path of the evolution of being. No doubt there is more to it...or so I believe.


Yes, that's it. The LOA is a perspective. It is a belief. It resonates with you and you find it useful. Maybe it really has broadened your perspective.

I find it limiting. I find that there is a much broader perspective when fear and beliefs go. But that's not the point. I'm not arguing against the LOA (or God or karma or any other belief).

But the LOA has nothing to do with awakening. It is misleading to claim otherwise.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:40 am

smiileyjen101 wrote:KR I think we are saying the same thing.


Maybe.

The human experience includes thoughts/beliefs, discernments/judgements and by the tenacity/vibration of those so our 'reality' will be experienced/noticed.

Where I notice 'fear' in regard to LOA is where it puts the onus of response ability on the one having/viewing/ experiencing their reality to take response ability for elements of the unfolding of it.

It's far easier for egoic self to blame external factors (make enemy, obstacle, means to an end of) than to 'notice' the vibrations of thought energy that create that reality.

It is absolutely embarrassing for the ego to accept circumstances, situations and be told ... you created this.

Denial, resistance, projection, responding in fear, making enemy of the notions that point this out because if not awake you then might look at self as the enemy, because you cannot honestly look at others in the situation as the 'enemy',

making obstacles to awareness of what is and how to creatively, awarely, work with that in acceptance, enjoyment, enthusiasm - being in a conscious state

or making means to an end of the situation - however that may play out .. as victim or victor, which yes is also circular as it takes you back to the start making enemy of.


I don't see a problem with any of this.

The problem here is that we all have enough spiritual knowledge to say things which sound pretty good.

I think you're open enough that you'll see what I'm talking about here. We are both familiar with spiritual concepts and spiritual terminology. We both know about the ego and pain-body. We both know the ego is diabolical. We both know that the ego can attack what it fears, and we both know that ego will defend because it fears. We both know that a spiritualized ego is even more diabolical and it will insidiously use the next level of misdirection. Even as it points out that other ego operates in fear, it will not be able to see it in itself. We both know that a spiritualized ego is in fact better at hiding, content in the knowledge that it will not be found under all the those spiritual beliefs.

It's like the theater play, where there is a lot of screaming and one actress is screaming at others to stop screaming. As you pointed out in your last post, this is a funny movement of the ego when it is doing exactly what it objects to. We both see this. It's even funnier when yet another actress screams at the first screamer to admonish her for not seeing the irony of her ego at work, while not seeing the double-irony of her own ego at work.

The point is yes the ego is diabolical. And yes it is about fear.

Fear can make us want to believe. Fear can makes us go against a belief.

Fear can also be eliminated. Then there is no need for belief.

If however you are open to 'notice' energies at play and notice the quality of energy in motion be it from your own manifesting or the manifesting of others you can circumvent the egoic reaction.


Noticing is a good start. But clearly it does not completely circumvent egoic reaction. The absence of fear does.

For the most part it means no different to ET saying be aware of your thoughts, don't make an enemy etc of them but also don't feed the pain body.


Well, okay, but if you want to be aware of your thoughts, be aware of your thoughts, and if you don't want to feed the pain-body, don't feed the pain-body. There is no need for complicated beliefs.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jul 09, 2012 1:46 am

karmarider wrote:Yes, that's it. The LOA is a perspective. It is a belief.

Do you not recognize a belief of your own here being characterized as a truth for all? It seems to be your belief that LoA is only a belief. Experience would suggest otherwise. Not yours of course, but for many, many others LoA, based on their own experience, is quite real. Sure it's still their belief, but beliefs can, and often do, reflect reality. Yes, I know, this is my belief. But that just demonstrates the point that we all perceive and act through a personal belief structure, even if it's a belief that we have no beliefs. That doesn't change the fact that our beliefs are an attempt to emulate reality as we believe it to be.

I find it limiting. I find that there is a much broader perspective when fear and beliefs go.

That's fine, I encourage you to follow your instincts. But it's not that way for everyone. There are many, many people who find LoA quite liberating and enlightening. That you would reject it is your business, but it's not that way for lots of others.

But the LOA has nothing to do with awakening. It is misleading to claim otherwise.

Can you not recognize this as the same belief you state over and over. Why is it so important that you continually stress this claim? Why does it matter to you if LoA could contribute to awakening or not? Many have found greater clarity/awakening through the practice of alignment as taught in LoA application. Are you going to tell them they're wrong and their experience invalid? Can anyone truly know another's experience?

There are no doubt many paths to awakening consciousness. Is anyone really qualified to say with certainty what brings clarity and understanding to another? Isn't it enough for each of us to find our own path to greater awareness? Do we need to tell another what's true or not true for them? It's fine to share what has been valuable in our one's own experience, and it's even worthy to caution others to such conditions that have created more obstacles for us, but it seems a step too far to aver that a particular teaching has no merit - especially one that has so obviously helped so many.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Mon Jul 09, 2012 2:13 am

SandyJoy wrote:...
Understanding that the world is a mirror of the Self does have a whole lot to do with 'awakening' ---it is one of those marvels Glimpses of Truth that bring us an Illumination which allows us to see who and what we really are.


That happens to be the case. It just happens to be the case; no need to create a belief system around it.

As we let go the old limited view and open our heart to an expanded view of our Self, we open the doors of perception, or we could say we rise to higher point of view--- and begin to understand many things that were not seen before.


Yes, exactly. The Law of Attraction is a poignant example of a very limited view. As we let go of old limited views like the loa and remain in humble space of openness, life becomes extraordinarily satisfying.

Thank you.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby smiileyjen101 » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:53 am

ah KM, yes, you and me have gone down this path before with the '... and other laws' thread in this section. What fun that was too!!

Take this in the energy of a curious / detached throw away notion :)

Sandyjoy wrote: As we let go the old limited view and open our heart to an expanded view of our Self, we open the doors of perception, or we could say we rise to higher point of view--- and begin to understand many things that were not seen before.

KM said: Yes, exactly. The Law of Attraction is a poignant example of a very limited view. As we let go of old limited views like the loa and remain in humble space of openness, life becomes extraordinarily satisfying.



If however you are having discussion among some of those who are not aware of energies in motion....
it might be kind to point out some of the things that are 'impacting' upon them.

When I say curious / detached... for me I see this discussion as no different to having a discussion with a pre-pubescent or pubescent child about the 'workings' of hormones and some of the effects on the body that they create, not as a big fuss, absolutely as 'natural', but as yet for them unknown as to the impacts.

The 'limited view' needs to be grown through, and if it can be assisted with understanding then it's a conversation worth having.

Noticing is a good start. But clearly it does not completely circumvent egoic reaction. The absence of fear does.



Does the absence of fear come from understanding that which was previously not understood?
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby rideforever » Mon Jul 09, 2012 4:10 pm

What is good about LoA, for me :

> I like Bashar : he just blows away so much shit. So much of therapy is in a victim position, of "oh, ah, tell me about your feelings" etc... and both the therapist and 'patient' sit in victim positions, enjoying their wounds ... okay, maybe this is good in the beginning, but it gets old real soon ... and the therapists try to hold you in this situation so that they can practice their crap

> I love people who break the rules and just say "This - is - Bull - Shit" ... it's a goddam relief

> Yes, all that conditioning / projection shit does need cleaning out ... but LoA just tells it how it is - same with Scientology .... yes, clean out the shit ... but don't talk about it, just do it

> Just Do It

> All the other supporting crap in Scientology like their little electronic box of crap, or LoA's followers asking for Ferraris, is indeed crap

> I have hated these threads, with all this stupid defensive bullshit ... they do me little credit

> When you come from an academic / intellectual world, and one day you see a plumber just saying exactly what he means - it's a goddam relief

> In other words I am sick of all the advice, the next person who gives me advice I am going to shoot

> I do a lot of thinking, but when my heart erupts - I know what is what ... it has always been this way with me ... and when I pray to God my heart erupts

> There is therapy, groups, Osho, many things ... but just do it ... don't go to one of these places to Talk - just do it, do the technique and don't look back ... let your heart be aflame

This mood I am in now I by far love the most because it is so hungry for the love of life

Leave Death Nothing But A Burnt Out Castle


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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby karmarider » Mon Jul 09, 2012 8:07 pm

smiileyjen101 wrote:ah KM, yes, you and me have gone down this path before with the '... and other laws' thread in this section. What fun that was too!!


Yes, it's fun. I'm not all interested in messing with people's beliefs. But with the loa it seems the attachment is so ferocious that it brings about defense and offense and the seeking of confirmation in a way which is instructive in itself.

I can't think of very many other belief systems which brings about this kind of attachment--maybe the ideas around religion and nationalism do.

So it's fun! For a bit.

Take this in the energy of a curious / detached throw away notion :)

Sandyjoy wrote: As we let go the old limited view and open our heart to an expanded view of our Self, we open the doors of perception, or we could say we rise to higher point of view--- and begin to understand many things that were not seen before.

KM said: Yes, exactly. The Law of Attraction is a poignant example of a very limited view. As we let go of old limited views like the loa and remain in humble space of openness, life becomes extraordinarily satisfying.



If however you are having discussion among some of those who are not aware of energies in motion....
it might be kind to point out some of the things that are 'impacting' upon them.


That's cool. You talk about people about your experience. That's what I do too.

When I say curious / detached... for me I see this discussion as no different to having a discussion with a pre-pubescent or pubescent child about the 'workings' of hormones and some of the effects on the body that they create, not as a big fuss, absolutely as 'natural', but as yet for them unknown as to the impacts.


hehe, it turns out that I was a single parent so I've actually had the discussion of adolescent hormones with my girls. And other stuff. I didn't talk to them about the loa. I did tell them to try to observe their thoughts. Which has done its job; they explore on their own now. I don't quite know where I'm going with this.

You're probably saying, what's wrong with talking about your own experience when your experience includes an exploration and confirmation of natural energies or the loa, etc?

There's absolutely nothing wrong with that.

But it's misleading to suggest this in the context of awakening.

A critical insight in awakening is that it has nothing to do with mental ideas or beliefs.

This statement is actually a very neutral statement. But when identification with the belief is very strong, it can seem like an attack, even a personal attack.

The focus here has been loa--but that's not the only idea which is a misdirection. Another example of a common misdirection is the tendency towards spiritual validation. We love our spiritual beliefs and ideas--we find it very validating to quote the "I" and capitalize Awareness and Conscious and Self, atma and vichara and samadhi and advaita, and ah! the golden flowery language of validation. And that's misdirection.

Nisargadatta gave the world a very simple and direct technique. Just go an look at you, the sense of you, the sense of being. It's easy and effective. it does not require belief. But we can see what happened--people pestered him with spiritual questions and he went along. That was disservice to the world--his technique is effective but very few will actually try it.

Ramana gave the world a very simple technique, really the same one as Nisargadatta, to look at the sense of you. He used the word atma-vichara which doesn't translate well and so many interpreted this as an inquiry, as some sort of inner exploration to suss out the real you. But he was just saying to look, to remain in the sense of self. The very ordinary sense of self, which is immediately accessible. It works.

ET gave the world a very simple technique. Be aware, be present, observe thoughts, and allow the natural intelligence to do its work. He does not talk about specific mental ideas or beliefs and very often points out that identification with particular beliefs can be an obstacle.

So in the context of awakening, no, I would not recommend the loa to people even if I believed in it. It is misleading.

For three years, I completely simplified my life. And it was very helpful to me. But I don't recommend it to people in the context of awakening. It would be very misleading.

The basic problem is fear, and all our mental processes and beliefs form in the context of fear. It's an insanity. And of course every solution we seek, even our most cherished spiritual solutions, are part of the problem, part of the context of fear. As Ramana said, everything is uncertain.

So if we're attached to particular ways of seeing things or particular terminology or particular lifestyles--that's completely fine. And of course when there is attachment to any of these, there is defense and there is offense and as we see some of these attachments bring about an uncanny ferocity. Add to this a bit a familiarity with concepts like the ego and awareness, and we get a pretty explosive mix.

In the Indian epic, the Mahabharata—the great 50,000 verse epic poem of human delusion and foible, the climactic scene takes place in Kurukshetra, 5000 years ago, when two powerful, unmovable armies of men, elephants, camels, sharp steel, fiery missiles and blood-lust face each other, and the heroic warrior-prince Arjuna, throws down his weapons, refusing to fight. He does not want to kill.

Krishna talks him into it. Krishna tells him he must slay his attachments.

Maybe it's not easy to see that our deepest attachments are our fondest ideas.

But nevertheless I don't recommend to people to try give up their beliefs--that's very difficult to do; as Krishna suggests that can take destructive violence.

It turns out it's not necessary to destroy the attachment to beliefs.

It just takes observance, looking. This is what ET essentially says, but he's not clear enough. Looking the sense of self, in the way Nisargaddatta and Ramana and John Sherman suggest, is particularly effective, and I haven't quite worked out why.

With observance, fear goes, and as fear goes so does the attachment to beliefs and terminology and spirituality. It's a natural and inevitable process of letting go.

This doesn't make beliefs wrong. We're free to play. But it's misleading to suggest that awakening has anything to do with any particular belief or lifestyle or terminology.

The 'limited view' needs to be grown through, and if it can be assisted with understanding then it's a conversation worth having.


Okay. Yes, I do see the ideas around loa as very limiting. The ferocity of attachment is a good hint about their limits.

Noticing is a good start. But clearly it does not completely circumvent egoic reaction. The absence of fear does.


Does the absence of fear come from understanding that which was previously not understood?
.

No, it's not a specific fear we're talking about. Yes, there are fears and anxieties we can resolve with understanding. Releasing is even more effective in my experience. That's not what I meant by fear though.

Honestly, I have not developed the articulation of this sufficiently yet. I suggest you check out John Sherman. I'd be interested in what you think of it.
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Re: LoA Explained Through Various Channels

Postby Webwanderer » Mon Jul 09, 2012 9:05 pm

A video on how LoA(via Abraham) and ET teachings can work together.

Belief in limitation creates limitation.
Reach out. Explore. Possibilities are endless.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TxjOp3IEMg0

WW

ps: I have it on good authority that the 'S' on his cap stands for 'Source'... :wink:
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