Are there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree with?

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Are there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree with?

Postby Ervin » Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:31 am

Do you wholeheartedly believe or know to be true everything that Eckhart Tolle teaches, or do you disagree with some of his teachings? If you do, what are the bits you disagree with?

Personally, I like Stillness Speaks and a New Earth books but the Power of Now is not quite on to it if according to my understanding although in my own way I still agree with some stuff from it.

Somewhere in one of his books he says that non violent passive resistance only is how far you can go. I have a question: Why can't you get violent if the situation is appropriate? Such as self defence for instance?
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby 123 » Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:37 am

Ervin wrote:Do you wholeheartedly believe or know to be true everything that Eckhart Tolle teaches, or do you disagree with some of his teachings? If you do, what are the bits you disagree with?

Personally, I like Stillness Speaks and a New Earth books but the Power of Now is not quite on to it if according to my understanding although in my own way I still agree with some stuff from it.

Somewhere in one of his books he says that non violent passive resistance only is how far you can go. I have a question: Why can't you get violent if the situation is appropriate? Such as self defence for instance?


PoN, page 135:

"Nonresistance doesn't necessarily mean doing nothing. All it means is that any "doing" becomes nonreactive. Remember the deep wisdom underlying the practice of Eastern martial arts: don't resist the opponen'ts force. Yield to overcome."

and:

"On the other hand, if action is required, you will no longer react from your conditioned mind, but you will respond to the situation out of your conscious presence. In that state, your mind is free of concepts, including the concept of nonviolence. So who can predict what you will do?"
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby karmarider » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:43 pm

I am very thankful to Tolle because he got me started. He showed me there was another possibility.

I thank him for that but I moved on from his teaching because I wanted to listen to people who had actually worked on their awakening.

There isn't anything I disagree with him in a big way. I think there are more direct ways to be present than to practice presence. His attention techniques are valuable (awareness, inner body attention). I think the way he talks about the mind and ego and identification led me to believe that mind/ego/identification are inherently bad and must be quieted. That's not the case.

He's a great resource and I think the simplicity of his words have helped many people get started.
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby karmarider » Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:52 pm

Good quotations, 123.

It's one of those questions where it's hard to know what we will actually do. Armchair answers are one thing, but in an actual fearful situation, who knows?
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby Ervin » Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:48 am

Over here in Melbourne at a restaurant where the Eckhart Tolle meditation meetup group wich I am a member of goes after the formal meeting for diner I met a woman who is also a member and she said that she doesn't have a clue what's Eckhart trying to say with The Power Of Now and that to her it doesn't make sense. But obviously I would assume that she might like A New Earth or Stillness Speaks. I don't think I asked her.

And others say it works wonders to the point that they admit being dogmatic Eckhart Tolle followers and that the PowerOf
Now is like a miracle.

I don't believe everything exactly the same as Eckhart does but it can be a good pointer on a journey to discovering the truth of the Source of everything that exists.

In order to be with the Source when the time comes you don't have to be like Hem( I use Hem instead of Him or Her). And Eckhart might think that we kind of have to be in this life just as pure, wich is not my understanding.

Thoughts
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby rachMiel » Sat Oct 06, 2012 5:03 am

This is not a disagreement, per se, but at some point not too far into The Power of Now after Tolle explicates and extols the virtues of presence, he says something like:

"That's really all you need to know. Anything beyond this is just a lot of potentially confusing words/concepts." (I'm paraphrasing.)

I really wish he'd stopped there, because I agree: It *was* all one needed to know ... and many (certainly not all) of the words beyond served to complicate a very simple picture that does not imo benefit from complication and wordiness.

As with everything else I say in this forum (or elsewhere): This is just my personal take. :-)
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby Jayakanth » Sat Oct 06, 2012 4:59 pm

karmarider wrote:I am very thankful to Tolle because he got me started. He showed me there was another possibility.

I thank him for that but I moved on from his teaching because I wanted to listen to people who had actually worked on their awakening.

There isn't anything I disagree with him in a big way. I think there are more direct ways to be present than to practice presence. His attention techniques are valuable (awareness, inner body attention). I think the way he talks about the mind and ego and identification led me to believe that mind/ego/identification are inherently bad and must be quieted. That's not the case.

He's a great resource and I think the simplicity of his words have helped many people get started.


Other than him, who have you listened to? And what other ways are there to be present?
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Re: Are there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby Donna » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:29 am

Yes I do disagree with some bits Eckhart Tolle (and others, actually) have said. Here is where I wrote about it... Is Ego getting a bad rap?
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby karmarider » Sun Oct 07, 2012 5:53 am

Jayakanth wrote:Other than him, who have you listened to? And what other ways are there to be present?


I like Jed Mckenna because he is direct and no-nonsense. And all he said has been true so far in my experience. I like John Sherman because he clarifies the technique Nisargaddatta and Ramana have suggested. Like most seekers I've done a lot of reading.

The important things have been to look at the sense of I AM, look through the delusion of self, learn to notice. learn to let go.

Other ways to be present? Here are two:

1. Looking at the sense of I you.

2. Observing the inner experience dispassionately. Seeing that there is no observer, only observation happening.
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby Jayakanth » Sun Oct 07, 2012 7:13 am

karmarider wrote:
Jayakanth wrote:Other than him, who have you listened to? And what other ways are there to be present?


I like Jed Mckenna because he is direct and no-nonsense. And all he said has been true so far in my experience. I like John Sherman because he clarifies the technique Nisargaddatta and Ramana have suggested. Like most seekers I've done a lot of reading.

The important things have been to look at the sense of I AM, look through the delusion of self, learn to notice. learn to let go.

Other ways to be present? Here are two:

1. Looking at the sense of I you.

2. Observing the inner experience dispassionately. Seeing that there is no observer, only observation happening.


Could u explain 1? And im having trouble with 2. When i observe the inner experience, i can't get a realization that i am one with the experience.
I have listened to jed mckennna's audiobook. But im more interested in j.krishnamurthi.
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Re: Are there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby ZenDrumming » Sun Oct 07, 2012 9:15 am

I have a similar opinion to karmarider's regarding ET's teachings. The Power of Now really helped me to intellectually confront the idea of being trapped in the mind, and it opened me up to the idea that there is a deeper way of seeing things. Besides the "honeymoon" period while reading the book, however, I haven't found much practical use for the teachings. This may be a strange thing to say, considering I'm on an ET forum, but I'm not a big fan of the term "painbody". Nothing against Eckhart, it's just that with such a sudden awakening as he experienced, he is less familiar with the process of waking up, in my opinion. His words, while true, don't often give me what I need anymore to see through the illusion. Once the illusion is broken, his words make sense, but that's when I don't really "need" them anymore.
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Re: Ate there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby karmarider » Mon Oct 08, 2012 8:01 am

Jayakanth wrote:Could u explain 1?


The "looking at the sense of I am" is what Nisargatta and Ramana were getting to. Some years ago when I first read these people, I did not understand what they were getting at, because at that time my head was full of spiritual notions. So I thought they were saying I have to bear down attention on my "true self" and I didn't know what that was or how to distinguish true self from mind/ego/awareness/false-self/body and so on. Also, Ramana and others call it an "inquiry." That's probably a problem with translations, but the word inquiry is highly misleading. It's not a figuring-out; it's just looking, with and looking with an easy and quiet gaze. My guess is that most people who read about this technique do not actually try it--that's just the way the mind works. And those who do actually try it, get stuck in trying to figure out what "I am" means, just like I did.

It turns out the looking is very simple. Just look at you.

Looking is of course moving attention. You can move attention right now to your breathing. And back to these words. And to your thoughts. And to the witnessing of your thoughts. That's moving attention--it's a natural skill which can be developed.

And so you look at the sense of you.

The sense of you. What it feels to be like you. The feel of you. You can't go wrong. It's a self-correcting looking, because all looking and each spiritual practice must even eventually come down to looking at you.

And so whenever you remember, just look at you, the person of you.

On helpful hint is that after a time of looking, you will remember that the feel of you is the same now as it was in previous years, even back when you were a child.

If this makes sense and you want to know more--John Sherman is very good at explaining this simple technique; I have a few articles of my experience on it on my website. Feel free to contact me by PM or through my website If I can help more.

And im having trouble with 2.


Notcing is just looking. Observation happening.

When you find yourself deep in thought or deeply immersed in an emotion, take a step back. Just watch. Try not to interact or stop the thought or emotion. Just quietly watch what's going. As you do this you will notice that thoughts will slow down, you might start to notice that emotions are patterns of thoughts and body sensations. This quiet, non-judgmental watching is noticing.

When i observe the inner experience, i can't get a realization that i am one with the experience.


Don't hold on this expectation. Don't hold on to any expectations. Don't hold on spiritual concepts. Not even the ubiquitous ones. There is never a need to capitalize special spiritual words. Simple and ordinary language works just fine. Don't reach for concepts which you cannot directly see.

I have listened to jed mckennna's audiobook. But im more interested in j.krishnamurthi.


I like J.K. I think he can sometimes get very philosophical. Whoever resonates is fine. These people are around to give us ideas. In my experience, it's best not to get attached to any particular teaching.
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Re: Are there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby Testigo » Wed Oct 10, 2012 6:19 pm

Don’t exactly disagree, but I have a doubt about the concept of the pain body: It is described by ET as negative, trapped energy in our physical body. In my search for some help to deal with a very heavy pain body, I visited and almost belonged to different sects, in some of which I realized they regard suffering as something with its own intelligence, and in certain cases, even cleverness to a point that it is capable of making special tricks to mantain its grip of the victim.
In ET’s books I have found that he has directly acted to help other persons. For instance, in A New Earth he talks about a pain body of a friend of his. After helping his friend with her problem, she got rid of it immediately. Then Eckhart went to a restaurant, and when he was there, he realized that his friend’s pain body had followed him! In there it took possession of a crippled man that suddenly started to shout abuse to a waiter and to the other clients and caused such struggle that they had to throw him out, but he came back in his wheelchair and kicked the door, shouted obscenities, etc., until the police had to intervene. All the times that I read that chapter VI I can’t avoid recalling something written in one of the Gospels about a possessed man that Jesus cured by simply ordering the demons to get off him, and they (the demons) begged Jesus to allow them to go into a herd of pigs. After that, all the animals got so crazy that finally they threw themselves down a cliff.
My question is: is it possible that the pain body is not just trapped negative energy but some kind of negative entities that really exist? ET plainly denies the existence of devils and similar entities, but still... I wonder whether or not is it possible to get rid of the pain body by appealing to some kind of... not exactly rites, but... exorcism? Nowadays a lot of such stuff can be seen on TV and newspapers, about people with special ”energetic powers” to ”miraculously” cure other persons.
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Re: Are there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby alethea » Thu Oct 11, 2012 12:58 pm

Yes.

I do not believe in god.

I do not believe in energy fields.

I do not believe in the law of attraction.

But I think Eckhart's contribution about the mind (watching the thinker, not believing every thought) and his views about the ego is very interesting. I enjoy his work because it helps to bring you into stillness - and I think the universe can be still (yet alert like he says) without invoking a supernatural creator into things.

And yes, this is just my opinion. :wink:
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Re: Are there bits of Eckhar T teachings that you disagree w

Postby psirotta » Mon Mar 18, 2013 7:27 pm

The one thing I have never done in more than 10 years is thought much about these teachings. I never found it necessary to think about any of it. I didn't get it through intellectual exercise. I just read or listened, and it changed me. The only thought I occasionally had regarding the teaching is "Yes, that's true!"

The teaching has always resonated inside me at a deep level, deeper than thought. Sometimes it resonates powerfully, other times less so. I don't believe this reflects in any way whether or not I believe it, or how strongly I believe it. It's more like some aspects I already have a sense for, others are completely new and revolutionary. I have not found belief to be so important when it comes to transformation.

I never found the teaching to be "food for thought." Tolle himself states repeatedly that it is not. So, if I am thinking about it, evaluating it, deciding which parts I believe and which I don't, I am stuck in mind games and not getting it at the deeper level where transformation is possible.

If someone spends a lot of effort thinking about this, maybe he or she isn't ready for transformation yet. Maybe that person hasn't had enough suffering. I don't really know. I only know how it was for me.

I realized the first time I heard any of this, at a time of great misery, that my thinking was creating my suffering. That awareness came crashing into me so powerfully, that since then I resist the urge to think about anything unless I absolutely have to, including this teaching. I don't discuss it, either. I will occasionally direct someone who is suffering to the teaching with some verbal explanation. Often I just hand them a copy of TPON. I won't get into discussions about it, or debate it, or try to convince anyone about it, or argue about it.

My experience is that if a person is ready, hearing the teaching is all that is required for transformation to occur. It either transforms you, or it doesn't. Thinking about it makes no difference.
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