Dealing with hard-core Christians?

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Nyseto
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Dealing with hard-core Christians?

Post by Nyseto » Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:36 pm

I had a close relative the other day ask me why I don't accept Jesus as my savior. I told him because "being saved" is an illusion and accepting Jesus as my savior is overlooking his essential message. I started to direct the conversation to this immediate moment away from religion, asking them with what they know anything at all. Their response was "My God given mind." I told them, ok what is it that is aware of this "God given mind."? They couldn't answer it. I mentioned to them about just being, just the feeling of existing, empty of thinking and they said that there is no knowledge in not thinking. I told him it's a nonconceptual knowing. I know deep down I have said something they've never heard before because most of the times when a Christian has a religious talk with someone, the other person is fighting the Christian's belief with another belief and I was just here proposing something beyond all beliefs all together. I was also pretty firm with him by saying things like "Everything is God" as opposed to there being a God or not being a God. He said something along the lines of "Blessed are those who have not seen, but believe." I explained to him that seeing is more powerful than belief because belief comes with doubt. I don't have to believe the chair, my hand, or the sun. The only response I kept getting was, I pray for you, I pray for you.

Then I asked myself, how could it be that I am referring to something so simple that is inside of all of us yet some people just don't see it at all? How do people not see the underlying message? It's like I tell you, hey you exist and you deny it. It has me laughing so hard. From his point of view he thinks he's being compassionate towards me by saying he is praying for me that I don't know but my heart knows that is not compassion whatsoever, it's pity.

I mentioned things like love is the absence of the person and he said if there is no person then there is no love. I said no, it's the absence of the false image you have of yourself. Didn't get a reply for that one either. I know I was reaching straight for his being and I know he knew it too. We were getting so close to true communion until his mind would pull him right back in. I could at least tell that every reply from me was a reply he was not expecting so he wasn't getting frustrated at the least, but opening up slowly in a confused way as if he didn't know what was going on. The next day I shared some random topic with him and he seemed so confused as if "You're not going to bring up what we talked about and try to convince me?" I have no words left to say lol
"There is no such thing as enlightenment. The appreciation of this fact is itself enlightenment." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

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turiya
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Re: Dealing with hard-core Christians?

Post by turiya » Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:34 pm

Nyseto wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:36 pm
How do people not see the underlying message?
I think it's because they're looking only with their minds.

And this cartoon pretty much sums up what happens when you look at God with the mind and then attempt to describe it to others:

https://images.app.goo.gl/SQnNpAnjE5o1qynCA

:wink:
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Nyseto
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Re: Dealing with hard-core Christians?

Post by Nyseto » Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:06 am

turiya wrote:
Sat Aug 22, 2020 9:34 pm
Nyseto wrote:
Fri Aug 21, 2020 9:36 pm
How do people not see the underlying message?
I think it's because they're looking only with their minds.

And this cartoon pretty much sums up what happens when you look at God with the mind and then attempt to describe it to others:

https://images.app.goo.gl/SQnNpAnjE5o1qynCA

:wink:
There's only so long someone can only look at it with their minds when in front of a Buddha. Osho said a Buddha will be misunderstood. He will either strike fear, or be a radiance of benediction to those around him because he is like a mirror. Either way what I found is, don't just share non dualistic ideas, but BE the presence while you do it. It's easy to turn a non dualistic statement into just another belief. You have to truly be freedom itself to free others. Their minds may resist it, but their hearts know damn well what you are speaking about. When I was talking to him and he was saying really mind-identification heavy things back to me, I could feel myself becoming more alive. There was no reaction to his statements, just straight answers back.
"There is no such thing as enlightenment. The appreciation of this fact is itself enlightenment." -Nisargadatta Maharaj

wsmcasey
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Re: Dealing with hard-core Christians?

Post by wsmcasey » Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:33 pm

Belief is in the mind and faith is in the heart. I don't have to believe in God because God is everything. I am as I AM. As a seeker of truth, I have faith and know it to be true. Suffering is the key that opens the lock. Many people have the key but think themselves out of using it.
Relax and let life happen.

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turiya
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Re: Dealing with hard-core Christians?

Post by turiya » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:20 pm

Nyseto wrote:
Sun Aug 23, 2020 5:06 am
Either way what I found is, don't just share non dualistic ideas, but BE the presence while you do it. It's easy to turn a non dualistic statement into just another belief. You have to truly be freedom itself to free others
Well said!

Kinda funny. I came across this Epictetus quote just this morning: "Don't explain your philosophy. Embody it."

:D
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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turiya
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Re: Dealing with hard-core Christians?

Post by turiya » Thu Aug 27, 2020 11:24 pm

wsmcasey wrote:
Wed Aug 26, 2020 7:33 pm
Belief is in the mind and faith is in the heart
Very true. :D
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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