Pain Body

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CJ-1
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Pain Body

Post by CJ-1 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 1:15 am

Can anyone who has understood what ET is talking about, explain what the pain body is and how to dissolve it?

Thanks.

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Webwanderer
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Re: Pain Body

Post by Webwanderer » Tue Apr 13, 2021 2:27 am

Here is a quote from Tolle on the pain body:

"The remnants of pain left behind by every strong negative emotion that is not fully faced, accepted, and then let go of join together to form an energy field that lives in the very cells of your body."

(My take) It is a mostly unconscious thought construct in which one infuses a sense of it being an element of one's identity... a 'me' element. An adopted pain identification constructed of accumulated unresolved painful experiences.
...and how to dissolve it?
Be okay with the pain. Release all judgment on the origins of the pain whether it be internal (self imposed) or external (imposed by another). Recognize that the pain we feel is an energy and an indication that we are out of alignment with our True Nature and relax into a realignment.

WW

nebularDust
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Re: Pain Body

Post by nebularDust » Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:06 am

The way I understand it can be best explained with an example:

Let's say you've had a bad day at work ... your boss criticized you, and you didn't get much done. Then you get home, and your spouse makes a simple remark like "I noticed you forgot to take out the trash this morning.", and it sets you off like lighting the fuse on a stick of dynamite. You explode in anger and let your spouse have it for 30 minutes straight.

A couple of hours later, when you have calmed down a bit, you realize that your outburst at your spouse had absolutely nothing to do with what she said / did, and everything to do with your past ... perhaps even decades ago. Some negative experiences from your past that you felt you couldn't bring closure to, left remnants within you in the form of negative emotional energy or pain. And now, when the perfect storm of circumstances arises, that energy is almost instinctively (and unconsciously) released by you. Eckhart calls this the "pain body".

A sign of a pain body outburst is - anger or emotional energy disproportionate to the triggering event. When the magnitude of your outburst far exceeds what was warranted by the triggering event, that's a good sign that your pain body has acted through you.

How to dissolve it ? Haha, no clue ... you got me there. Good question.

CJ-1
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Re: Pain Body

Post by CJ-1 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 7:19 pm

Nice example nebularDust.

Thanks for the quote WW
Be okay with the pain. Release all judgment on the origins of the pain whether it be internal (self imposed) or external (imposed by another). Recognize that the pain we feel is an energy and an indication that we are out of alignment with our True Nature and relax into a realignment.
Doesn't the above sound like a generic statement? What does the person have to do? Can you use yourself as an example and illustrate?

CJ-1
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Re: Pain Body

Post by CJ-1 » Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm

to form an energy field that lives in the very cells of your body."
I am curious, is this supported by any scientific evidence?

nebularDust
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Re: Pain Body

Post by nebularDust » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:34 am

CJ-1 wrote:
Tue Apr 13, 2021 10:29 pm
I am curious, is this supported by any scientific evidence?
I'll let the other poster speak for himself but my take on it is - I would highly doubt it, but in all fairness, I have not scoured the web trying to find the answer. So, I'm only 99.99999% sure that the answer is no.

A lot of what Eckhart claims is based on his intuition and his being in touch or in tune with his inner body. A lot of spiritual teachers claim to be highly aware of their inner bodies, so they make similar claims. Have they examined their cells under an electron microscope or whatever gadget detects energy fields ? I don't think I need to answer that. You know the answer.

For the sake of completeness, I did read an article a few years ago that talked about a study on the physiological effects of loneliness on the human body, and that article claimed that chronic experiences of loneliness cause premature aging and ... if I remember correctly, there was some sort of inter-cellular or intra-cellular observation made in the study to support the claim ... "free radicals" or something. You could say that the chronic experience of loneliness can be considered as a sort of "negative energy field" (to put it in Eckhart's terminology). And, we all know that chronic anxiety is disastrous for long-term health. Ultimately, pretty much everything happens on a cellular level, right ? Even if we usually only speak of health conditions at a macro level (like an organ). So, perhaps what Eckhart was saying is along the same lines, but he expressed it in a way that would cause scientists' heart rate to rise ... i.e. a pretty radical claim to be made by someone who doesn't have a background in medicine.

CJ-1
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Re: Pain Body

Post by CJ-1 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:55 pm

Good information nD, thanks. I like that you look at both sides of the issue being discussed.

I am also waiting for WW's answer on how to dissolve the pain body. These things are better understood when someone elucidates from their own experience. It will also be nice to find out if ET's statement is indeed supported in some way.

BTW, if i want to address any user by their username without having to type , how do i do it? I don't see a @ feature.

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Re: Pain Body

Post by nebularDust » Wed Apr 14, 2021 7:27 pm

CJ-1 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:55 pm
Good information nD, thanks. I like that you look at both sides of the issue being discussed.

I am also waiting for WW's answer on how to dissolve the pain body. These things are better understood when someone elucidates from their own experience. It will also be nice to find out if ET's statement is indeed supported in some way.

BTW, if i want to address any user by their username without having to type , how do i do it? I don't see a @ feature.
I don't think such a feature exists. The only way to get a user's attention is to quote them in your response. So, you would click the button with the quotes on it (""), and that would result in a notification being sent to that person that someone has quoted them in a response.

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Re: Pain Body

Post by Webwanderer » Wed Apr 14, 2021 10:39 pm

CJ-1 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:55 pm
I am also waiting for WW's answer on how to dissolve the pain body
The simple answer is to change the energy that has created and holds the pain that gives it form. The painbody is energy of a certain quality. We, as the individuals that experience the events and circumstances that influence our painbody's creation, have the power (the same power) that created it, may use that power to remake our sense of it.

To change the energy, change the context in which you hold it. For example, instead of seeing the pain, and the events that initiated it in a negative light, see them as opportunities that you appreciate. If you get hired to a difficult job, you can look at the work to be performed as a burden and a task that you dread, or you can look at as an opportunity to learn and apply new skills which are worthy of appreciation.

This also applies to past events. Just because we may have perceived things in a certain way in the past that locked them in as an element of our painbody, doesn't mean we cannot take a wiser, more informed, view of them now. Re-perceive them with a more current and clearer understanding of their greater nature in the present.

Consider deeply the feeling of genuine appreciation. There is little in life that is better. I see it as the closest we humans can get to unconditional love. It's not the same as gratitude, although gratitude may be a form of it. Generally it's far more transcendent in that it requires nothing but love and acceptance free of judgment. When one's life view is inclusive of a larger reality from which this human condition has sprung, then all experience here is replete with purpose. That makes all experience open to appreciation for the benefits that grow in terms of the larger evolution of consciousness and being.

WW

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Re: Pain Body

Post by CJ-1 » Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:12 pm

Thanks WW, but i find the response to be still generic and vague. Is there a way you can make it more precise?

For example:
The simple answer is to change the energy that has created and holds the pain that gives it form. The painbody is energy of a certain quality. We, as the individuals that experience the events and circumstances that influence our painbody's creation, have the power (the same power) that created it, may use that power to remake our sense of it.
What kind of energy are we talking about? What is the nature of this energy? What's the location and what are the pathways? Do we have access to a control switch?
To change the energy, change the context in which you hold it. For example, instead of seeing the pain, and the events that initiated it in a negative light
Well, here we have a circular argument problem. How can we ask people to shift perspective when they can't in the first place? If they could, they would have done so by their own efforts, without ET or anyone else. Bringing about a lasting change within oneself is part of the problem.

The above logic will apply to everything else you have said. People can't on demand "change perspectives" and generate "appreciation", "love", etc. It doesn't work that way as we well know. A change of perspective is an outcome of new information at an experiential level. Surely, it can't be an outcome of self-hypnosis or "positive thinking". If that was the case we would all have done it easily by thought manipulation, but thought is powerless compared to the gut (metaphor).

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Re: Pain Body

Post by Webwanderer » Thu Apr 15, 2021 1:12 am

CJ-1 wrote:
Wed Apr 14, 2021 11:12 pm
What kind of energy are we talking about? What is the nature of this energy? What's the location and what are the pathways? Do we have access to a control switch?
I would best describe it as 'mental/emotional energy'. Recall the energy of: emotion, love, hate, fear, enthusiasm, anger, appreciation, countless other nuances.

I think the primary pathway is our emotional nature. The control switch is recognition of conditions and the choosing to direct/replace what spontaneously arises with a preferred feeling.
Well, here we have a circular argument problem. How can we ask people to shift perspective when they can't in the first place? If they could, they would have done so by their own efforts, without ET or anyone else. Bringing about a lasting change within oneself is part of the problem.
Who says they can't? If one believes they can't then the first step is clear. That belief must be explored, honestly considered, and tested until a path to change it is found. Changing beliefs is the difference between stagnation and significant growth.

No one could walk before they tried and failed countless times, learning from each failure to improve on the next attempt. The primary factor in successful walking was the belief that they could do it. It's the same with most any achievable goal. If one person can change a belief then anyone can given the proper mindset and a relentless approach. But to believe that we can't change a belief undermines any attempt to do so. That belief must be addressed first until it loses its power to undermine.

As far as doing so by their own efforts consider that there is much in life that is wise to have an assist through a competent teacher. That's what schools and teachers do - share the 'how to's' based on their own experience and understanding.

Tolle is a teacher. But in the realm of consciousness expansion, he can only point even though his experience may be great and his understanding clear. The student with Tolle, are any endeavor, must do the work.

Someone asked Edison about the thousands of times his light bulbs failed. He replied he had no failures. He successfully discovered thousands of ways that light bulbs would not work. He believed in his ultimate success irrespective of the number of times his light bulbs did not work.

WW

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Re: Pain Body

Post by CJ-1 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:01 am

I would best describe it as 'mental/emotional energy'. Recall the energy of: emotion, love, hate, fear, enthusiasm, anger, appreciation, countless other nuances.

I think the primary pathway is our emotional nature.
Alright, so you are talking about emotional energy, which is just one part in the grand scheme of energies :-). And it seems you are saying this fragmentary aspect of energy can bring about a total change in the complete energy field. Does it sound plausible?
Who says they can't?
No one has to say it, it's self evident, isn't it? Our own experiences, and the lives of others around us, point to this obvious fact. Keep in mind i had used the words "lasting change" earlier. I wasn't talking about superficial and passing changes.

I know if i start pulling the threads nothing will remain of the clothes, so i am not going to do it. The intent is to understand and possibly learn, so i will leave it as it is. That said i think i understand what you are saying. Appreciate the responses, thanks.

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Re: Pain Body

Post by nebularDust » Thu Apr 15, 2021 6:11 am

CJ-1 wrote:
Thu Apr 15, 2021 2:01 am
No one has to say it, it's self evident, isn't it? Our own experiences, and the lives of others around us, point to this obvious fact. Keep in mind i had used the words "lasting change" earlier. I wasn't talking about superficial and passing changes.
I totally get what you're saying, and I agree. People talk about "love" and "acceptance" and "unconditional surrender" as if it's as easy as moving a finger at will. One can write volumes about it ... actually experiencing it is a different matter. It's not as easy as writing about it all day long.

Like you said, if it were that easy, everyone would be doing it spontaneously and at will. The trillion dollar psychotherapy / life coaching / self-improvement industry wouldn't exist, and everyone would just live in total harmony. Also, this website probably wouldn't exist. Actually, the mere fact that we are here talking about it is a strong indicator that the practice of it eludes us ... that the only thing we have mastery of is our keyboards. I could be wrong, but I think that He who lives in total awareness has no need for participation in an Eckhart Tolle forum ... I know I wouldn't.

This is all theory ... fancy words summing up to nothing ... the practice of it is something entirely different.

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Re: Pain Body

Post by CJ-1 » Thu Apr 15, 2021 7:55 am

Yes nD, it's definitely not as easy as some make it sound. I think a lot of that has to do with the fact that we pick up information from various sources and think it's our own. People then start passing that information, as if it's their own. You must have also noticed this problem.
Actually, the mere fact that we are here talking about it is a strong indicator that the practice of it eludes us ... that the only thing we have mastery of is our keyboards. I could be wrong, but I think that He who lives in total awareness has no need for participation in an Eckhart Tolle forum ... I know I wouldn't.
If i may, here i would like you to consider couple of things. You are right, the practice/mastery of things eludes many, but also note that people come to a forum for various reasons. A forum facilitates those reasons. I have absolutely no problem with someone that says he or she doesn't know, but wan'ts to learn. However, i have a problem with dogmatic know-it-all's who lack that kind of humility. And you know what, all of us can fall, and do fall into that trap, sometimes or other, right? So i think we have to remind ourselves to be easy on ourselves, and on others.

Second, a forum's ideal function is to facilitate a discussion, there is no reason why if you as a aware person , can't or won't participate, if you are mindful of the problems (or similar problems) mentioned above. You may share out of compassion or maybe encourage someone. Maybe you can learn something in return. Learning ever stops, right? Though many people in these circles believe in a final point i don't think that's the case. It seems learning is from moment to moment and never ceases. If learning ceases then logically it will become dead knowledge, and part of memory, not active awareness. But can we blame people for not seeing this fallacy? We can't. People are at different places in their lives, so....

Which reminds me, after reading your response again WW, i wanna thank you for that encouraging last paragraph. I suppose some people here need encouragement, and it's nice if you can give it to them.

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Re: Pain Body

Post by Sighclone » Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:10 pm

Though many people in these circles believe in a final point i don't think that's the case.
Of course learning never stops. But riding a bike is a skill that represents a paradigm shift, an understanding that does not change, a watershed in development. It is that 'discovery' or 'recognition' that both Tolle and Buddha, and many other writers (including JK and Adyashanti) speak of. Are you seeking that experience? Or just curious about Tolle's label "painbody" which is pretty hard to nail down, and perhaps equally hard, I presume, to "dissolve."
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
The present holds the complete sum of existence. - Whitehead

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