Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

A place for anything that doesn't fit into the existing forums
Post Reply
User avatar
kiki
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 4811
Joined: Fri Nov 26, 2004 8:55 pm
Location: Wherever "here" happens to be

Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by kiki » Sat Sep 17, 2022 1:50 pm

And even worse is feeling lonely while being in a relationship. A change in perspective will make all the difference.

Knowing/recognizing/realizing directly who you truly are beneath every concept of yourself that has defined you as a separate entity is key. Conscious abidance in true essence dissolves all sense of separation. True essence, consciousness, is prior to every idea in the mind about one's identity, and therefore it is only mind that creates the sense of separation. It is from the illusion of separation that loneliness takes root, so one must expose that false idea for the illusion it is. Go deeper within, beneath all ideas/concept to that which attention has been fixated.

Ask yourself 'Who/what am I truly?' and see if you can find something other than 'stories of me' parading through your mind. Can you be a story? Stories are only thoughts and they are always changing, but the mentally created ego entity (which itself is noting but stories) latches onto and then identifies with those stories, and that's where people are entangled.

What's present right here right now when all thoughts about the past or ideas of the future are allowed to drop away? When every limited belief and all self-referencing narrative stops something remains that is peaceful, still, silent and free. THAT is what you are.

Being alone gives you ample time to conduct this investigation, to shift attention away from its conditioning to look outside oneself for comfort, love and acceptance and onto one's true essence, that which witnesses the stories in the mind, pure consciousness. It is that pure consciousness that is immediately felt when you simply stop and allow yourself to feel the fact of your very existence that lies at the core of you. The realization of the simple fact of knowing that 'I am' cannot be denied. Not 'I am' as defined within the construct of some role that is being played out but the 'am-ness' of Being.

Return again and again to sensing Being itself, the am-ness of one's presence, of unadorned existence, the undefined and open presence of pure consciousness itself and you will gradually dissolve identification with the 'little me' that you believed yourself to be, and then you will know yourself AS consciousness rather than a 'me-entity'. There is no separation in knowing oneself as consciousness and therefore no sense of loneliness.

What you ARE is what you seek. That is the cosmic joke that is being played out. We are in this life to wake up to that reality; that is the game we are playing, a game of hide and seek - with our Self! Olly Olly oxen free!
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
---

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6465
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by Sighclone » Sat Sep 17, 2022 5:44 pm

Lovely, Kiki, and certainly all true. In loneliness we seek others to "make us whole" or as Bob Dylan said "the other half of what I am." In that this is an important validation that people are a "social creatures," and loving relationships are healthy and can be healing, other people can be wonderful additions to a lonely life. But, oddly, they can be a distraction from discovering yourSelf.

Chapters and books have been written about relationships and (or versus) awakening. But relationships presuppose a need that must be filled. That need is the natural desperation of the isolated ego, created and supported by culture and parenting and to some degree by physiology and species-preservation drives. The vast majority of people go through life seeking a partner to complete their life. The degree to which they succeed varies. But the best partner, in my opinion, is one who says, in words and actions, "yes we are happy together...is that enough?...is there another level of awareness that we are both capable of?...can we explore that together?" And that kind of intimacy, a shared seeking, is important. A member of a dyad, a loving relationship, who strikes out on her/his own to shake off the confinement of ego may be seen by the partner to be drifting into remote oblivion...not intimacy.

Andy
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
The present holds the complete sum of existence. - Whitehead

CJ-1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:00 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by CJ-1 » Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:57 pm

You' are alone not only empirically but also existentially. This is a fact.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6465
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by Sighclone » Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:50 pm

CJ-1 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:57 pm
You' are alone not only empirically but also existentially. This is a fact.
It is absolutely a fact only if you identify with the body and ego as "me." Nondual teachings transcend that concept.
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
The present holds the complete sum of existence. - Whitehead

CJ-1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:00 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by CJ-1 » Thu Sep 29, 2022 10:10 pm

Sighclone wrote:
Thu Sep 29, 2022 7:50 pm
CJ-1 wrote:
Thu Sep 22, 2022 4:57 pm
You' are alone not only empirically but also existentially. This is a fact.
It is absolutely a fact only if you identify with the body and ego as "me." Nondual teachings transcend that concept.
Your identification is a fact while your non-identification is just a comforting concept. Facts are independent of your choices or beliefs.

User avatar
Sighclone
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 6465
Joined: Wed Feb 13, 2008 6:22 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by Sighclone » Fri Sep 30, 2022 6:47 am

Your identification is a fact while your non-identification is just a comforting concept. Facts are independent of your choices or beliefs.
Each body is unique in the universe. Each person identifies as somehow contained in that body by about age 4. Awakening is an experience that is a concept until it happens. When it happens, the sense of self changes, and the experience is not always comforting. Please clarify your use of empirical vs. existential. Thank you.
There is not past, no future; everything flows in an eternal present. - James Joyce
The present holds the complete sum of existence. - Whitehead

CJ-1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:00 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by CJ-1 » Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:20 pm

Awakening is an experience that is a concept until it happens. When it happens, the sense of self changes, and the experience is not always comforting.
The concept of “until and when” is obviously tied to the belief that “it happens” (whatever the "it" means) . The fact is you are in no position to determine either, except as borrowed concepts. The entire weave is conceptual and is conditional upon “until and when it happens”. Therefore prior to this alleged happening, claims of what will happen or the effects of it, are speculative non-facts.
Please clarify your use of empirical vs. existential. Thank you.
The demand has several problems.

First, questions seeking clarification are usually asked before any rebuttals, otherwise it may be safely interpreted the author’s initial rebuttal is meaningless since he or she doesn’t even understand the subject into which they jumped in. Chances are it was knee jerk reaction than a reasonable rebuttal.

Second, a demand is not the same as a request. The former usually comes with ulterior motives while the latter is a sincere wish to learn. So far there is no obvious evidence in support for the latter

Third, putting a please in the beginning and a thank you at the end doesn’t effectively disguise what seems to be a direct order. Unfortunately I don’t feel like obliging orders, sorry.

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7076
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Oct 01, 2022 5:04 am

CJ-1 wrote:
Fri Sep 30, 2022 4:20 pm
...putting a please in the beginning and a thank you at the end doesn’t effectively disguise what seems to be a direct order. Unfortunately I don’t feel like obliging orders, sorry.
But didn't you just make an assumption on Sighclone's motives that effectively takes you off the hook for answering what certainly seems to be a legitimate request for clarification? Could that be a position of convenience so you wouldn't have to answer something that you're unable to answer with any clarity? And isn't ending your sentence of denial for information for what is likely a genuine effort to get deeper into a discussion with a "sorry" the same type of 'disguise' for one's true motive that you accused Sighclone of?

WW

CJ-1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:00 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by CJ-1 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 6:00 am

But didn't you just make an assumption on Sighclone's motives
It isn't an "assumption" when it is a factual observation and the determination is made using the tests of reason and etiquette as explained perviously.
you off the hook
The use of the phrase "off the hook" is very telling. Not about me but about you. How you think and assume.
what certainly seems to be a legitimate request for clarification?
Already stated the reason. The sequence of his request is completely off.
Could that be a position of convenience so you wouldn't have to answer something that you're unable to answer with any clarity?
That's a whole lotta assumptions unsubstantiated by any evidence. But it seems like something you would often resort to.
And isn't ending your sentence of denial for information for what is likely a genuine effort to get deeper into a discussion with a "sorry" the same type of 'disguise' for one's true motive that you accused Sighclone of?
Again, you are confusing what you would perhaps do. You are repeating yourself. Repeating the same points, and displaying the same character deficits, which is at the core of your post. Playing tag team and coming to the support of another moderator is rather petty. With no contributions to the topic in question and a whole lootta distorted assumptions strategically arranged and disguised as questions, seemingly to bait and lure the poster to react, is borderline trolling. Please be mindful of your forum role.

Like i had mentioned before, a deeper discussion is initiated by a wish to learn from each other. That kind of discussion has humility and honesty as its foundations. 2 qualities which you may have yet to understand, let alone live, judging from your post. Singclone missed that opportunity when he attempted to bait me, like you are trying.

User avatar
Webwanderer
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7076
Joined: Fri May 12, 2006 12:03 am

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Oct 01, 2022 3:09 pm

Amateur psychoanalysis is such a fun game. And also an effective defense mechanism. This human experience provides all manor of unique possibilities for us to explore and hopefully grow from. Enjoy.

Edit: Just in case you are interested in taking the fast track to spiritual growth from exchanges like this, here is a most effective path to do so: How does it make you feel? Therein lies the value.

WW

CJ-1
Posts: 23
Joined: Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:00 pm

Re: Are you feeling lonely because you are alone?

Post by CJ-1 » Sat Oct 01, 2022 7:48 pm

Alright, you have had your last word . You may run along now and take some breathers. Do whatever it is that you do.

Post Reply