Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

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nebularDust
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Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by nebularDust » Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:57 pm

Hello. I'm putting forth a question to promote discussion and perhaps gain some insights. I am genuinely interested in people's opinions on this. But first, a bit of background ... and then I will present the question.

My life, as a whole, could, in the traditional sense, be considered a massive summation of mistakes and disasters ... with its worst aspect being interpersonal relationships and another, although far less important - career. Pick any day of my adult life out of a shuffle ... and you'd see glaringly obvious signs of suffering, despair, hopelessness, and a big black void where friends, family, and intimate relationships ought to be. I seem to have a special talent for attracting misfortune into my life experience.

So, over the years, I did what anyone in my shoes would ... try to understand why. Why always me ? This just doesn't compute. The desperation to find an answer yielded many such hypotheses over the years:

- I must be an extra-terrestrial being in human form (throughout my college years, I clung firmly to this belief)
- I must be possessed by the soul of a human being who suffered greatly in the past and who, even in his/her last moment, was unable to let go of that pain ... and I inherited that pain.
- I am physically ugly (this was quickly disproven by many women).
- I am suffering so that someone else somewhere else may enjoy his/her life, i.e. like the law of conservation of energy in Physics, there must be a law of conservation of happiness ... there is only so much happiness to go around ... and someone else has taken my share. (This is a more recent theory and one that I am currently seriously contemplating)

And then, two nights ago, as I lay in bed, for reasons I can't explain, I remembered my mother telling me that while she stayed with her in-laws (i.e. my Dad's parents), the first two years of her marriage, she underwent a lot of abuse and was forced to do lots of household chores that involved a lot of physical effort. Even being pregnant with me did not excuse her from those responsibilities i.e. ... she suffered a LOT while she was pregnant with me.

Could her pain (i.e. "pain body energy") from that time have transferred to me as I was preparing to come into the world ? Did her abuse at the hands of her in-laws put me on a trajectory of unhappiness and suffering ? And could it be so strong as to keep me from breaking free from it ?

This is a serious question. Hence my signing up for an account here. Thanks in advance to those who pause to read and contemplate this.

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by kiki » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:13 pm

There are those who believe we 'contract' for our present circumstances on the physical plane in order to serve a specific purpose which remains hidden to us once we incarnate on Earth, a purpose which those around us have also agreed to be part of and a purpose whose ultimate goal is for your benefit. With that in mind, perhaps your mother's exposure to less than ideal circumstances while carrying you were the factors that have led you to the circumstance that you've been experiencing.

The question then becomes, "So, just what is my ultimate purpose for being here now?" Perhaps it's to finally realize there is something more profound to be discovered, something that isn't 'out there' within the world of form that we heretofore have been chasing and not finding, but something within oneself that's already present that has been overlooked. And the overlooking of that brings nothing but dead end chases with dissatisfaction, frustration and suffering in their wake.

Your very question is something that is expanded upon in a book that I've been reading lately, a book that first came into my possession in 1975. When I first came across this book, The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner, I felt drawn to it but couldn't really grasp on the deeper level what was said. Throughout the following decades I would occasionally try to read it again, but I continued to fail at truly understanding it. Then, about a month ago without warning the thought popped into my head, "I need to read The Impersonal Life again," so I dug it out of storage and began once more.

This time I read it slowly and out loud, and that has made a big difference. This isn't the kind of book to rush through, and the more you read it and take time to 'grok' it the more sense it makes. Then later I looked for it on Youtube and found several videos of it being read out loud, and I found that to be even more beneficial. I would listen to it as I did yard work or while sitting quietly with eyes closed. It all started making perfect sense, and now I consider it to be one of my most valuable and profound books I've ever purchased.

You see, throughout my entire life I have felt there was something I needed to remember, but for the life of me I couldn't figure out what it was. That failure led me to finally look within which I did for many years. Nothing 'out there' ever appealed to me like the inner search did when I first learned to meditate in 1973, but even so I was coming up empty handed.

My most important breakthrough came when I read The Power of Now by Eckhart Tolle over 20 years ago. That led to exposing the 'me' I believed myself to be as nothing more than illusion playing out in the mind. I came to understand and experience directly that my true nature was consciousness itself. The Impersonal Life takes it a step further and explains in words what impersonal consciousness would say if given a voice, and that voice came through the channel of Joseph Benner in 1914 when he penned that book anonymously. Being a Christian pastor he felt it necessary to hide this piece of work from fellow Christians because most weren't ready to hear its message.

I have been wanting to bring this book to the attention of this forum but never found the 'right time' to do that, but your post now presents an ideal situation to do that, so I want to thank you. Once you read the book you will understand on a deeper level why it should happen now for the both of us as well as our community here.

I encourage you to get the book as well as listen to it online. The following link will take you to my personal favorite reading of it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jo8qS0B3n0&t=2316s

And by the way, welcome to the forum.

kiki
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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by Zizitop » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:32 pm

Hello and welcome to the forum.
My answer in short would be yes, but moreover I would strongly recommend reading Arthur Janov, the primal scream and Life before birth.

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by nebularDust » Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:41 pm

Wow ! Sir, you have truly and greatly surpassed my expectations for a meaningful response to my post ... and I am deeply grateful to you for that.

The book you mentioned sounds great, and I will certainly look for it.

To do your response any shred of justice, I will take a night's sleep to digest it, perhaps re-read it a few times (because your response warrants that), and come up with a proper response tomorrow.

Thank you for the warm welcome I didn't expect :)

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by kiki » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:26 am

It's not an easy read for a couple of reasons. Number 1, the content is unfamiliar for most people; there are concepts presented that challenge one's cherished beliefs that a lot of people will resist and discount out of hand. Secondly, the format is rather odd with how the concepts are physically presented with repeated uses of all caps for certain phrases, and there are entire paragraphs consisting of a single sentence. This is why listening to it may be the best approach for newcomers to the material. In the link provided the reader does a wonderful job of modulating his voice and rhythm of speaking.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:32 am

Thanks for the link Kiki. And welcome to the forum nebularDust.

WW

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by nebularDust » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:09 am

kiki wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:13 pm
There are those who believe we 'contract' for our present circumstances on the physical plane in order to serve a specific purpose which remains hidden to us once we incarnate on Earth, a purpose which those around us have also agreed to be part of and a purpose whose ultimate goal is for your benefit. With that in mind, perhaps your mother's exposure to less than ideal circumstances while carrying you were the factors that have led you to the circumstance that you've been experiencing.
(First off, I must state that I have never been known for writing concise forum responses, so I hope you won't mind a bit of verbosity.)

I guess so. At times, I would rephrase what you said to "Those around me have all conspired, in some other dimension, to make my life hell in this dimension.", because there are times when it strikes me that that IS what is happening ... like moments of loud, unpleasant, and repetitive (almost robotic) arguments with my parents. It DOES feel like this has all been thoroughly architected and orchestrated, although I can't find concrete evidence of it.
kiki wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:13 pm
The question then becomes, "So, just what is my ultimate purpose for being here now?" Perhaps it's to finally realize there is something more profound to be discovered, something that isn't 'out there' within the world of form that we heretofore have been chasing and not finding, but something within oneself that's already present that has been overlooked. And the overlooking of that brings nothing but dead end chases with dissatisfaction, frustration and suffering in their wake.
Yes, there is. Now that I have seen glimpses of it, I know that it is real (referring to that "something more" you speak of). And it is truly amazing - still, peaceful, beautiful. But, here are the "issues" with it:

- It is transient, fleeting, elusive, and much too short-lived ... so when I do get to glimpse it, I savor it and absorb its sweetness as much as I can, in an effort to prolong the moment as much as possible ... like sucking on a piece of fruit to get the last few drops of sugary goodness out of it.

- I can usually only experience it late at night, when most humans within earshot have temporarily died and hence are not able to produce their usual deafening noise (amplifiers, air conditioners, car alarms, construction equipment).

- And on most days I can only glimpse it after sending some ethyl alcohol or kindred chemicals through my liver ... to still the mind :(

But even if I were able to experience it more often, I would want a balance between it and doing what mortal humans do (as nonsensical as that is) ... so those glimpses that I get feel like a few raindrops to a dehydrating sailor lost at sea. How is it ever going to be enough to quench the thirst ? :(

Question for you - Even if you are able to experience the "something more", is it enough for you ? Don't you have inescapable human cravings ? And are you able to satisfy them ? How do you create the balance ? I do realize the intrusive nature of this question - I am asking about your personal life. Well, I'm sure you can encrypt it for me.
kiki wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:13 pm
Your very question is something that is expanded upon in a book that I've been reading lately, a book that first came into my possession in 1975. When I first came across this book, The Impersonal Life by Joseph Benner, ... The Impersonal Life takes it a step further and explains in words what impersonal consciousness would say if given a voice, and that voice came through the channel of Joseph Benner in 1914 when he penned that book anonymously. Being a Christian pastor he felt it necessary to hide this piece of work from fellow Christians because most weren't ready to hear its message.
That last sentence is a fascinating bit of trivia ! Analogous to that ... I feel it necessary to hide my inner state from almost all fellow humans, except perhaps ones on sites like this one, because I know that most aren't ready to hear the depth of what I have to say. Their answer usually is "Snap out of it, bud." or "Just get a job." :) And that is a lonely place to be ... because this human form demands to be heard and understood by other specimens. "Social animal", my ass !

Thank you ! I have already downloaded the YouTube video you sent me to, and look forward to listening to it. Perhaps, I will return to this thread with follow-up questions.
kiki wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:13 pm
And by the way, welcome to the forum.
kiki
👍👍 :D
Last edited by nebularDust on Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:15 am, edited 1 time in total.

nebularDust
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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by nebularDust » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:13 am

Zizitop wrote:
Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:32 pm
Hello and welcome to the forum.
My answer in short would be yes, but moreover I would strongly recommend reading Arthur Janov, the primal scream and Life before birth.
Thanks, and I will take a look at those !

nebularDust
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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by nebularDust » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:21 am

Webwanderer wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:32 am
Thanks for the link Kiki. And welcome to the forum nebularDust.

WW
Thank you. Now, I know that mysterious web personalities like to remain mysterious ...

But I would love to know what kind of endeavor it must take to get a dog to sit in that kind of posture ... whether it be Photoshop or black magic. I won't wait for an answer :D

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by nebularDust » Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:25 am

kiki wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 12:26 am
It's not an easy read for a couple of reasons. Number 1, the content is unfamiliar for most people; there are concepts presented that challenge one's cherished beliefs that a lot of people will resist and discount out of hand. Secondly, the format is rather odd with how the concepts are physically presented with repeated uses of all caps for certain phrases, and there are entire paragraphs consisting of a single sentence. This is why listening to it may be the best approach for newcomers to the material. In the link provided the reader does a wonderful job of modulating his voice and rhythm of speaking.
Yes, I would definitely prefer listening to it. I would listen to Eckhart in my car on my daily hour-long drives, and that truly is the best way to attempt to absorb the material.

And, narrating is an art too. I must say Eckhart does quite a good job himself. And the fact that he himself narrates his words is a huge plus to his audiobooks in my view. I've listened to some of Kim's talks ... she just doesn't "have it" for me.

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by Webwanderer » Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:54 pm

nebularDust wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 8:21 am
I would love to know what kind of endeavor it must take to get a dog to sit in that kind of posture ... whether it be Photoshop or black magic. I won't wait for an answer
Become the dog... I am the dog... :mrgreen:

WW

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by kiki » Mon Apr 12, 2021 8:30 pm

Yes, there is. Now that I have seen glimpses of it, I know that it is real (referring to that "something more" you speak of). And it is truly amazing - still, peaceful, beautiful. But, here are the "issues" with it:

- It is transient, fleeting, elusive, and much too short-lived ... so when I do get to glimpse it, I savor it and absorb its sweetness as much as I can, in an effort to prolong the moment as much as possible ... like sucking on a piece of fruit to get the last few drops of sugary goodness out of it.

- I can usually only experience it late at night, when most humans within earshot have temporarily died and hence are not able to produce their usual deafening noise (amplifiers, air conditioners, car alarms, construction equipment).

- And on most days I can only glimpse it after sending some ethyl alcohol or kindred chemicals through my liver ... to still the mind :(

But even if I were able to experience it more often, I would want a balance between it and doing what mortal humans do (as nonsensical as that is) ... so those glimpses that I get feel like a few raindrops to a dehydrating sailor lost at sea. How is it ever going to be enough to quench the thirst ? :(

Question for you - Even if you are able to experience the "something more", is it enough for you ? Don't you have inescapable human cravings ? And are you able to satisfy them ? How do you create the balance ? I do realize the intrusive nature of this question - I am asking about your personal life. Well, I'm sure you can encrypt it for me.
Allow me to let loose my verbosity.

What 'it' boils down to is the realization of one's true nature, the underlying consciousness that exists prior to the arising of thought/mind. That is what The Power of Now and all awakening teachings are about. Prior to awakening we are caught up in thinking/mind - that is readily apparent, isn't it? Not only that, but so caught up in thought we don't even realize our very self-identity is a creation of thoughts in the mind. That's the delusion and the reason for dissatisfaction, frustration and suffering. The way out of this is to wake up from that delusion, the delusion of me, and into the truth of one's of true nature, consciousness.

Awakening can happen all at once (which is rare), or via a series of steps that gradually build upon one another. Either way this is what is realized: 1) there is the dropping away of ego identity, 2) the noticing/realization of what's prior to the ego identity (consciousness/true nature), 3) resting in/as consciousness, 4) without the personal perspective of ego identity daily life is no longer subjected to the thought overlays that ego would impose upon it - life is then seen as it is rather than as how the ego would interpret it. There is just the clarity of raw experience without the overlay of mental projections upon it.

Expanding on the steps:

1) Ego identity is composed of a series of thoughts/'stories of me' that almost endlessly play out in the mind. Attention gets fixated on these stories, and we come to identity with those stories in a personal way. How does everything and everyone relate to 'me'? This is what creates separation; there is 'me' and everything else that is not me. Because the collective me entities are unique they inevitably 'bump heads' with opposing viewpoints and beliefs and conflicts follow.

Sometimes the ego/me/mind comes to a spontaneous standstill and without warning there is experienced a moment of complete inner silence and deep peace and we feel wonderfully alive and open. Walking in nature is fertile territory for such events, or gazing upon a sunset or painting or listening to a piece of music.Then the mind engages again and with its noise the peace we felt is no longer there. We then think we've lost it. It was so wonderful, but oh so fleeting that we wonder what happened to it and wish it had stayed and yearn for its return.

The truth is, it didn't go anywhere, but the me entity doesn't understand this, and so it goes on a search to hopefully recapture it in some imagined future. That search could easily because a spiritual journey that lasts for many years. Ironically, it's that search that keeps it at arm's length. Not having the understanding of what ego is we become slaves to its desires, goals and preferences and influenced by its prejudices and aversions. Above all, it seeks to protect itself and stay alive because it believes it's 'what I am', but it's not.

So, with this idea of the illusory nature now presented we can directly investigate for ourselves whether ego/me is real or not. Up until now we just assumed its reality, but does that assumption stand up to scrutiny? Look for it honestly and what will be found? Thoughts about 'me'; that's it, just a conglomeration of thoughts and stories that collectively give the impression of something real and substantial.

Begin to note the theme of the stories you tell yourself. Perhaps they revolve around what you do for a living; the power and influence or lack thereof you have on others; your wealth or lack of wealth; the people/reasons for struggle; religious and political beliefs; the need to know more, to have more and to be more; even sports affiliations. These things and more weave themselves into a personalized identity called 'me', but no actual me is present. There is no thing that can be isolated and identified as a separate 'me' at all, just thoughts. Can you be a thought? Does that even make sense?

2) If I am not who I believe myself to be, then what am I really? This is the critical question, the very pivot point upon which awakening rests. Realizing that will eventually shift you from delusion and into reality. So pay attention, now. What was present in those fleeting moments of peace and stillness that were experienced while walking in nature, gazing at a sunset, a portrait or listening to music or even while doing some mundane chore? When all thoughts were gone, which obviously included those familiar stories of me, what remained? What was its nature? Wasn't there the knowingness of inner stillness, silence and an unmistakeable knowing that peace was present? THAT'S WHAT YOU ARE! You are That - that knowingness, alert and aware of whatever object appears.

There is the immediate and obvious knowing of that - no words/concepts were required for the knowing of that. There are several names for 'that'. I sometimes call it knowingness and very often simply consciousness or awareness, and most recently impersonal consciousness because it isn't attached to a personal identity/ego/me.

This impersonal consciousness never goes anywhere, it's always present even when the ego or mind is active, but it's most noticeable when mind abates. It is what knows there are thoughts, emotions, sensations and objects present. It is the knowingness of whatever arises. The thing is, ego will appropriate that knowing for itself. It will claim, 'I know...' because that's what it's been conditioned to do. That's where delusion enters the picture.

In other words, ego exists between the underlying consciousness/awareness and the particular object that is known. Ego is unaware of the background of consciousness because attention is directed outwardly onto the object. In fact, ego is incapable of knowing anything. Furthermore, mind is incapable of knowing anything. Both ego and mind are objects that are known by consciousness/awareness alone; all knowing arises out of consciousness. There is no separate 'I' actually present only a mind-created entity labeled 'me'/I.

3) Resting in/AS consciousness. Once the ego entity is investigated and seen as only an illusory appearance in the mind constructed out of nothing more than thoughts and the underlying knowingness is realized, there can be a relaxing of attention away from thoughts and resting in the knowingness itself. Let attention favor the knowingness and not what the mind is saying. In other words, there is a relaxing into clear seeing, clear perception.

4) Repeated relaxing into clear seeing brings such familiarity with the peace, silence and stillness of true nature that mind begins to operate as more of a tool that arises when necessary and abates when not. Abidance in true nature matures and eventually becomes the default state.

When mind abates so does ego, but both will always be available. When ego arises it will be spotted more and more quickly for what it is, a temporary guest that can come and go. The previous demands and expectations it had begin to lose their forceful insistence. In short, it chills out to a degree not previously experienced. Its dominance in daily life will be gradually diminished so that eventually its intrusion into daily life reduces considerably. In its place is the impersonal perspective and ever present peace of true nature.

Life is then lived spontaneously and with greater ease. Being present to what is moment to moment simply happens naturally and without effort. Thoughts of past and projections into the future give way to the timeless presence of now. Immediate concerns that need tending to get taken care of, but angst about the past or future dissolves. Whatever arises arises and is met. Sometimes there is indulgence in a momentary desire and sometimes not. There are no hard and fast rules that must be adhered to. This is the freedom to be what you are knowingly.
"Miss Kelly, perhaps you'd like this flower. I seem to have misplaced my buttonhole ... Miss Kelly, you know, when you wear my flower you make it look beautiful." Elwood P. Dowd
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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by turiya » Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 am

Re: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jo8qS0B3n0&t=2316s

Thanks for posting this link, kiki! Good Stuff! :D
“We ourselves are not an illusory part of Reality; rather are we Reality itself illusorily conceived.” - Wei Wu Wei

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Re: Can a fetus absorb pain body energy ?

Post by Louis More » Fri May 07, 2021 1:49 am

Thanks kiki, that is a whole book about spirituality in a single post

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